16mm to DV

[Casey Jones]

First:

Great site, a useful wealth of knowledge.

 

Second:

I am shooting a documentary, my first with film. Everything I have done has been with video so far. I have always used Final Cut Pro and I want to continue to use it. So my question is: How do I get Film to DV(for editing) then back to Film again? This seems like such an elementary question, but I need to do this right. I have found a company who takes Film and drops it to any DV. But I don't know how to get it back to film. Another thing does film have to processed first?? Folks I have no idea about film. I have used video for so long, I have taken too much for granted. If anyone can explain the exact process of Film to DV (for editing) then back to Film again to me I would be extremely grateful. Do I process film first then put it on DV then edit then back to film or what? Or do I have all of this wrong? The only way to learn is to ask. I hope this is the right forum.

 

Thank you. Thank you.

 

-Casey

Edited January 30, 2005 by Casey Jones

[Alvin Pingol]

>>How do I get Film to DV(for editing) then back to Film again?

 

While my level of experience and knowledge is far from those of the masters who participate on these forums, I will try to answer your questions to the best of my abilitiy and allow others to fill in any necessary, missing information, as well as expand on the ideas presented here.

 

Film to video is done in a process called telecine. I assume you mean MiniDV when you state DV as your desired format, an intermediate in this case. Personally, if I were planning on going back out to film, I would (in the case of requiring a SD signal to edit) telecine to a format that does not introduce as much loss as does DV, a format with minimal color information and high compression ratios. Though I've had no experience with the following format, knowledge gathered from this forum has led me to say Digibeta is what you should request to keep maximum quality. To transfer back out to film requires use of a CRT-based or laser-based (expensive) film recorder.

 

 

>>Another thing does film have to processed first??

 

In order for telecine to work, the film must be developed first.

 

Another thing you must consider is that under normal circumstances, a film camera runs at 24fps. Depending on whether you live in a PAL-based or NTSC-based country, there are certain necessary steps you'll have to take. If you're a PAL guy, I would recommend shooting at 25fps just to simplify things a bit more. If NTSC, you'll shoot at 24fps, and your telecined footage will have an interlace pattern (3:2 pulldown) applied to it so as to make it compatible with the 60i NTSC standard. Before editing, you will need to remove this pattern to be able to edit a 24P stream to your liking. As for the export to deliver to the transfer house, you would probably need to ask them if they can accept a stream with pulldown and remove it there, because you can't record a 24P stream on a MiniDV tape. Well, at least, I can't do that. If they request a true 24P stream, you may need to find an alternative method to deliver it to them (transfer to an HD format, maybe?).

 

To avoid all of this, you can do an offline edit and create an edit decision list (EDL) and have the film physically spliced together.

 

Others here can expand on that process. Hope this hels.

 

EDIT: Looking over this again, it seems you are sure your final medium will be 16mm. In this case, I'd highly recommend doing an offline edit, since you'll lose a lot of quality by transferring to a standard-def format, then back out to film. If you must, though, consider a 24P DV camera. While it won't look exactly like a 16 to video to 16 transfer, it'll be close - and it'll save you money.

Edited January 30, 2005 by Alvin Pingol

[Casey Jones]

Thank you for your response, it has helped with my numerous questions.

 

Correct me if I am wrong. In order to do an offline edit I must have my film transferred (telecine?) to DV (yes I was assuming miniDV, but I can change) then I would edit in FCP then export an EDL then give it to someone to perform the edit? Correct? Are there companies that will do an edit? I have found some companies (New Jersey, Boston area) that I believe will do that. I am not sure.

 

I currently have 2 Xl1s, and I was considering a dvx-100a, but have decided I need to go the route of film. I feel sometimes my material lacks that depth that film provides. So I think I need to give it a shot.

 

The only prices I know of are the ones I have been reading of on some of the Transfer Houses websites. 16mm to DV etc. Could you enlighten me?

 

This is a gruesome, tiresome endeavor to do what is not easy to learn something that is new, but I think it is worth it.

 

Thanks.

 

-Casey

[Chris Burke]

Most transfer houses will cut you a deal different from their book rate. Talk to them and explain your situation. Since you are so new to the film world, I would highly recommend that you team up with someone who is knowledgeable. This will save you lots of aggravation and money. If you are looking for a telecine in the Boston area; take a look at National in Brookline, they often cut the local guy a good deal. Also try Filmshack, for the super lo budget.

[Delorme Jean-Marie]

hi

i do not get why you need to go back to film

when you shoot in 16mm either you show your work in digital beta or you blow up the final editing to 35mm? but this is a big budget documentary?

when you do the telecine ask for a copy of the dailys on digi-beta then transfer this beta to mini-DV for editing. But the best would be to edit from the digi-beta and have a master on digi-beta.

have fun

[David Mullen ASC]

i do not get why you need to go back to film

when you shoot in 16mm either you show your work in digital beta or you blow up the final editing to 35mm?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Certainly this has been done by some documentary filmmakers but the 16mm takes a big hit in quality if you use a transfer to standard def video as the basis for a transfer to film. It only makes sense if you simply didn't cut the project with a negative cut in mind, or you are incorporating a lot of standard def video footage into the project.

 

A better route than SD would be to transfer to HD and use that as a basis for a film-out.