Bolex EL or Eclair Acl

[Dperkins]

Im looking to buy and these cameras are in my price range.Which camera is better

[Mitch Gross]

Very different camers that perform very different fundtions. Describe the type of work that you plan to do.

[Dperkins]

Im looking to shoot sync sound projects tv comercials ,PSA's and music videos. I live in hawaii so i will be shooting alot outdoors i want this to be my main camera i have A super 8mm with crystal sync and a canon xl1s dv camera .My 1st 16mm project is a music video but it has a 3 min opening thats all sync sound dialoge before the song and dance starts. This summer we plan to Enter the The Hawaii International film Festival so transfering to 35mm is another need .

[Tim Carroll]

The Bolex is pretty noisy. And good barneys are harder to come by for the EL compared to the EBM. If you are seriously planning on doing sync sound, you will save yourself many headaches by going with the Eclair.

 

-Tim

[Dperkins]

Which model the ACL

[Tim Carroll]

Mitch knows the Eclairs much better than I do. I know the Bolex's quite well, having had a number of rather frustrating experiences with them. They are a really nice camera for what they are, which is to say, they are not a "pro" level camera, and to shoot sync sound with one can be a real series of challenges.

 

There is also an excellent book out that would be well worth purchasing before you buy a camera. You can get it from Visual Products and it is titled:

 

The 16mm Camera Book, second edition, by Douglas Underdahl.

 

It will give you alot of good information to help you reach a decision. Visual Products also has a number of Eclair cameras for sale and they have all been overhauled and serviced, so should give you no trouble. You can see their web site here:

 

http://www.visualproducts.com/

 

Hope that helps,

-Tim

[Rachel Oliver]

Go for the Eclair. Bolex's are fantastic for pushing film to it's limits (How many cameras can you dissingage the motor and actually hand crank the film? although only the spring wound models I think) But for shootimg sync and anything emulating traditional mainstream cinema and TV then the Eclairs gonna get you there faster than a Bolex, although it can be done!

[Mitch Gross]

A Bolex is in appropriate for this type of work. The Eclair ACL was technically never released in different models, but there were numerous upgrades during the decade they were in production so that people now commonly dub them the ACL-1, the ACL-2 and the in-between units the ACL-1.5. The upgrades include a heavy duty motor that could handle the larger 400' mags (200' were also available) and could run up to 75fps, an expanded electronics base with a 4-pin XLR power connector and side handgrip instead of a base-mounted one, and most importantly an orientable viewfinder (I believe made by Kinoptik but it could be Angenieux). All of these would make for an ACL-2. Optical Electro House (or is it Electro Optical--I always forget) in LA is THE place for all things Eclair, and they make a bunch of upgrades to the cameras which they dub the ACL-3.

[Dperkins]

What is the price range for a good used Eclair Acl and should I buy from a dealer or ebay.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

If you've got one of these ancient, 200ft-load 16mm cameras, what do you do about breaking down 400ft rolls of stock? Wind it in a darkroom? Sounds like it'd be a horrible opportunity for dust and contamination, as well as a real bear to do.

 

I seem to remember also that the Eclair ACL can be modified for super-16. Sweet.

 

Phil

[Christian Appelt]

The time it takes to load may be another issue. Maybe you want to do it like Stanley Kubrick in KILLER'S KISS: During the (real) boxing match he and his coproducer shot alternating with two 35mm Eyemos (about 70 seconds of film at 24fps), one had to film while the other was reloading...as Tom Waits once said, "maybe for those of us who like...action."

 

Breaking down negative to smaller rolls is not that big a problem. I did it often with 1000ft 35mm reels to get 400ft & 200ft lengths for my Arriflex, and the best place to do it is a darkroom at your favourite film lab. Most labs have a time of the day where they do not need all their loading rooms, so if you ask them politely, you should get to use their room without a charge (always assuming you get your film processed/printed there ;) )

 

But for the type of work you described here, the Eclair seems a better choice to me.

[Mitch Gross]

You could break down 400' loads to 200' loads. I've done it as a film student sitting at a rewind table in a darkroom. But it laborious and you're always afraid of dust or static. Don't forget to roll the film back forwards again so that the jeycode numbers are in the correct order and if single-perf the holes are on the correct side. But now that Kodak makes those special 200' spool loads for the A-minima, you just stick the spool into the changing bag, popit apart (twist of wrist) and stick the film into the mag. I haven't done it myself, but it is supposedly pretty painless.

 

Eclair ACL cameras go for anywhere from $2000 - $10,000 depending on accessories, model and condition. Buying gear off of eBay can always be a risk as others can attest to. Most of these cameras have been sitting in a closet for years gathering dust or certainly not serviced and lubed in some time, so they will all need to be gone over and perhaps fully overhauled when you get them. So while the price from a place like Visual Products or Optical Electro House may seem high, it includes a recent servicing and overhaul plus a return policy should there be a question. I would never purchase used gear at auction sight-unseen without getting this in mind or getting feedback from an equipment house. Just as I wouldn't buy a used car without paying a mechanic to check it out first, I wouldn't buy a used camera without first having a camera technician at a rental house inspect it. Most sellers are happy to work out an evaluation with any real buyers, but the buyer generally pays for this. Some owners have long-standing relationships with equipment houses so the gear might not need to go in to be checked--a simple phone call and you can learn all about someone's gear (given permission of course).

 

Depending on how much you want to put into this camera and how much you want to get out, you can have a very nice ACL-2 package with a decent zoom, 2x 400' mags and some basic accessories for around $4000. And then you can spend more. :(

 

Also, THe French-made units are supposed to be more reliable than the English ones. When they moved the factory to England there were a lot of problems and the cameras & mags had issues. Think of British sports cars. :blink:

 

Places to check out Eclair ACL cameras, all with websites:

 

Optical Electro House (not much of a website, but George can fax you some info)

Visual Products (lots of product and great upgrades)

Les Bosher (Super-16 and lens mount upgrades, in England)

The Movie House (Super-16 upgrades and other accessories, in England)

AZ Spectrum (electronic accessories for the ACL and others)

[Dperkins]

Thanks everyone ....Eclair Acl 3 it's is then.