Brian Pritchard Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 I understand that Soho Images, who have been taken over by Deluxe, are stopping all 16 mm services and stopping all printing. I heard this second-hand (or should I say previously owned :rolleyes: ) so I hope it is accurate. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Lewis Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 I understand that Soho Images, who have been taken over by Deluxe, are stopping all 16 mm services and stopping all printing. I heard this second-hand (or should I say previously owned :rolleyes: ) so I hope it is accurate. Brian Brian ... What you have heard is correct. Deluxe Soho have also updated the old Soho web page and this now omits all refrence to 16mm printing. All of my 16mm filming is processed for projection and much of it is in B&W. Soho did my colour printing. They processed my exposed negative film and printed a one light workprint. I was always delighted with the results. I also film in B&W and I believe that this has a quality which is often overlooked. It certainly has a place in this colour conscious world we seem to focus on today. I shoot B&W using Kodak 7222 and no.w.here, a non for profit lab in Bethnal Green Road, London, process it for me. They will develop B&W Kodak 7222 as a negative and, I believe, will digitise it. They will also produce a positive for projection, and that what they do for me. Their services are open to anybody, and their charges are very reasonable. They will also supply B&W filmstock. Membership brings added opportunities as well as reduced costs. They are a very friendly group of people, and I would strongly say to anybody who wants B&W 16mm processing that they should contact no.w.here and explore the mutual benefits which using them can deliver. We as cinematographers should support no.w.here so that this resource which is available to us now continues to be available. Take a look at their web site. You will see that, as I say, they are a "not for profit" organsation which provides excellent and broadly based opportunities (including training) for those interested in the world of cinematography. It appears that Mike Sperlinger at lux(dot)org(dot)uk is co-ordinating arrangements for a meeting of interested parties affected by the decision of Deluxe, as the new owners of Soho, to discuss the decision to stop printing 16mm film at Deluxe Soho, and initially it seems there is to be an on-line petition calling on Delux to reverse their decision. Certainly, Deluxe's decision is quite dreadful for cinematographers who prefer to project film since the loss of 16mm printing by Soho means there is now no lab in the UK which will print 16mm colour film. It never ceases to amaze me when a company chooses to take over another company which is providing a service and the first thing they do is to cease providing the service they have taken over. One might just wonder why they took over a company which offers a print service only to close down the print service. I guess the answer is that they saw an advantage in taking over only certain of Soho's services, but had to take over the lot on the basis that they could drop those services they were not interested in. So much for the ethics of big business! It is clear that they do not understand that loyalty is something which flows in both directions. This might make some sense to Deluxe, but it represents an absolute failure of service to those cinematographers who have come to rely on the print service provided by Soho. We should all do our best to support no.w.here in the future to try to ensure that it survives the present cuts in public funding, and it is to be hoped that there will be lots of support for the on-line petition to Deluxe Soho in an endeavour to get them to think again. Mike Sperlinger (mike@lux(dot)org(dot)uk) will provide details of the online petition and other action to anybody who is supportive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stephen Murphy Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 As far as i know they're still developing S16mm. The only service the've stopped is printing 16mm. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freya Black Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 As far as i know they're still developing S16mm. The only service the've stopped is printing 16mm. S That's my understanding too! Tacita Dean had an article in the guardian recently about this and there were pages of comments from people who didn't seem to have read the article saying she should shoot on a camcorder or a RED camera or something. Very odd. Not sure if this will affect workprints mind you or if it's only timed prints they are stopping. It may be that Deluxe bought the facility because they can't keep up with the demand at their existing lab. It's a shame they didn't step in and buy some cheap equipment from film lab north when that was shut down. In any case they are struggling to cope with the amount of 35mm film work and they make less on 16mm so it's a straightforward decision to focus on 35mm. love Freya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freya Black Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Here is a link to the article by Tacita I mentioned: Tacita Dean Article If you read it you can see she is quite clearly talking about making prints and that other processing continues as normal. Underneath are a ton of comments by people who have read the headline and chosen to post whatever they want to believe. Everybody has their own reality I guess. love Freya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Lewis Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 The service which has been discontinued is the printing of 16mm film. The processing of 16mm film as negative film and digitising services are continuing, as I understand it. So, anybody who projects film is not now able to get projection prints, including work prints, from Deluxe Soho and they will have to look elsewhere. Elsewhere for colour film, it appears, is abroad. For 16mm B&W processing and printing we still have no.w.here in London, and we need to try to ensure that they continue and if possible expand. I suppose anybody requiring 16mm negative colour film processed and a workprint provided could still have their negative film processed as a negative at Deluxe Soho, and then send the negative abroad to have a workprint produced, but it doesn't make much sense to to do this because it will probably be faster to have all of the work done at one lab abroad. Furthermore, it increases the risk of loss in transit, reflecting the two stages. Because I project my films, the service now provided by Deluxe Soho is of no use to me and I am sad about this because Soho provided a good service. I would much rather have been able to continue my business relationship with them. I always found the people at Soho to be friendly and efficient, and their standards were excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Pritchard Posted February 27, 2011 Author Share Posted February 27, 2011 Thanks for all the clarification. Actually Film and Photo still offer a 16mm printing service in both B/W and Colour as well as colour neg and E6 processiing. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Lewis Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Details of the on-line petition to Deluxe Soho can be found here: http://www.gopetition.com/petition/43288/signatures.html. Please support the petition and help to get Deluxe Soho to reverse their decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Holland Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 I have signed the petition, but it wont work soon after Deluxe bought Rank Denham they did the same there . Just a great big no choice swallow them up company . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Borowski Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Certainly, Deluxe's decision is quite dreadful for cinematographers who prefer to project film since the loss of 16mm printing by Soho means there is now no lab in the UK which will print 16mm colour film. It never ceases to amaze me when a company chooses to take over another company which is providing a service and the first thing they do is to cease providing the service they have taken over. One might just wonder why they took over a company which offers a print service only to close down the print service. I guess the answer is that they saw an advantage in taking over only certain of Soho's services, but had to take over the lot on the basis that they could drop those services they were not interested in. So much for the ethics of big business! It is clear that they do not understand that loyalty is something which flows in both directions. This might make some sense to Deluxe, but it represents an absolute failure of service to those cinematographers who have come to rely on the print service provided by Soho. Robert, with respect to you and to John, Deluxe is a service BUSINESS, not a non-profit service for filmmakers. This is about color film, and no one using it to make 16mm prints. It is amazing that the service lasted this long. What market is there for them anymore? Everything I see coming from the UK is crummy-looking HD. I admit to a certain fondness for the new "Dr. Who" and "Law & Order: UK" wigs, bands, robes, and Frema Agyeman included. But the production looks bad and they certainly aren't using up any filmstock. Instead of sitting here on the internet, make a 16mm film and print film dailies! Show them, not with words and petitions, but with actions what a huge mistake they made counting the ECP market out. The lab community appreciates each and every foot of ECN and ECP that you order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Schilling Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Alpha Cine in Seattle is still does 16mm printing. If one lab stops, support the one that still does it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Lewis Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Robert, with respect to you and to John, Deluxe is a service BUSINESS, not a non-profit service for filmmakers. This is about color film, and no one using it to make 16mm prints. It is amazing that the service lasted this long. What market is there for them anymore? Everything I see coming from the UK is crummy-looking HD. I admit to a certain fondness for the new "Dr. Who" and "Law & Order: UK" wigs, bands, robes, and Frema Agyeman included. But the production looks bad and they certainly aren't using up any filmstock. Instead of sitting here on the internet, make a 16mm film and print film dailies! Show them, not with words and petitions, but with actions what a huge mistake they made counting the ECP market out. The lab community appreciates each and every foot of ECN and ECP that you order. Karl (I hope you do not mind me addressing you by your Christian name), I set out below the heading of the petition: "Soho Film Lab is the last commercial lab to print 16mm film in the UK. It has recently been taken over by the US Company Deluxe, who have decided, as part of their worldwide policy, that 16mm is no longer a commercial priority and therefore to stop printing it with immediate effect. Soho Film Lab, now named Deluxe Soho, has been told to take no new orders. This is devastating news for many artists and filmmakers who continue to work with 16mm print, and to the museums, distributors and institutions fighting to preserve and raise the already fragile visibility of the most significant art form of the 20th century. 16mm continues to be an important medium for artists and filmmakers in the UK and worldwide and is frequently on show in major museums, galleries and festivals here and abroad. Works on film are also an important part of many international collections. There has also been a huge revival of interest in 16mm within the visual arts in the last 10 years by a new generation of artists and this renewed use of 16mm continues to expand significantly. There is a constant demand for 16mm prints in Soho Film Lab. Contrary to what is imagined, 16mm print is still a small but viable market. There is a cultural separation between art and the cinema industry that runs the labs. Cinema sees only digital as the future, but within art, both are important. The complete disappearance of 16mm print production facilities in the UK represents a scandalous cultural loss both in the UK and abroad.". I do not wish to get diverted into a discussion based on a perception of the British film world, but that apart you seem to imply that you have knowledge of a "business case" which Deluxe have had regard to. As far as I know, and this appears to be supported by the information contained in the petition, Deluxe have not claimed that the 16mm print element of the former Soho Images Lab was unprofitable. Rather it seems to be a decision which has been taken because they do not see 16mm printing as fitting within their corporate profile. As I have said in an earlier posting, I am a mere amateur. However all of my colour printing has been done by Soho, and there was no consultation with customers and no explanation has been given by Deluxe as to why they have taken the decision they have. The technical attributes of film as opposed to digital imagery is a most subjective issue, and we do not need to get involved in a debate on that issue now. What this is all about is a Company taking over a Lab and then for no reason they care to explain, they instruct their subordinates to take no more orders for 16mm printing and, as a consequence, deprive the customer base they acquired when they completed the "take-over" of a service those customers were dependent upon. You say "This is about color film, and no one using it to make 16mm prints.". Perhaps you could explain the depth of the knowledge you have as to the financial justification for the decision Deluxe have taken in relation to the 16mm print service in London, or of any cost benefit analysis they undertook before making their decision to end the print service. Better still, if you wish to see 16mm film printing continue, why not sign the petition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk DeJonghe Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 As the closest lab to London (2 hours by train) still doing 16mm prints, I want to say that the market is small and only interesting for a small lab like ours.I think we do the majority of 16mm prints in Benelux and France and it is certainly not enough business to keep a full crew for this. 16mm used to be our main business 15 years ago and we still have the equpiment to do it well. Ultimately it is the customer who decides with his wallet what services will remain in the long run. I can hardly see a major film lab spending time on small 16mm print projects where maybe one or two prints are needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Pritchard Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 "Soho Film Lab is the last commercial lab to print 16mm film in the UK. It is not correct to say that Soho is the last lab to print 16mm. Film and Photo print 16mm, both B/W and Colour, Prestech also are able to print both B/W and Colour and No.Where can print 16mm B/W. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Lewis Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 It is not correct to say that Soho is the last lab to print 16mm. Film and Photo print 16mm, both B/W and Colour, Prestech also are able to print both B/W and Colour and No.Where can print 16mm B/W. Brian If both Film & Photo and Prestech, or either of them, are able to absorb the work abandoned by Deluxe Soho, this is indeed good news. All other things considered, I suspect a good number will be relieved if they are able to continue to get their work done. Is it known whether the capacity is there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Pritchard Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 Film and Photo have the capacity, I believe that although Prestech are able to print both B/W and Colour in 16mm they tend to prefer to concentrate on 35mm restoration. Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Holland Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I have signed the petition ,i must say cant remember the last time i saw a new 16mm print ! My problem is the lack of choice in labs i can use what ever the format . Just now seems Deluxe or Technicolor world wide and that isnt good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Cooper Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 ...My problem is the lack of choice in labs i can use what ever the format . Just now seems Deluxe or Technicolor world wide and that isnt good. What about Reliance Mediaworks, who now appear to have totally rebranded "ilab", having bought them at the beginning of last year. Also mentioned in the thread, there's "Film And Photo" in the Uk as well, although I have to confess I didn't find them all that helpful/friendly on the one occasion I tried contacting them - hey ho, perhaps it was just me. <shrug> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K Borowski Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I have signed the petition ,i must say cant remember the last time i saw a new 16mm print ! My problem is the lack of choice in labs i can use what ever the format . Just now seems Deluxe or Technicolor world wide and that isnt good. Hmm, kind of like Kodak and Fuji for origination. Seems like a lot of the big industries are moving towards oligopolies, duopolies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Holland Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Yes , plus Agfa for not long enough ! Like choice in where you buy your food a few huge corporations . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freya Black Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) Robert, with respect to you and to John, Deluxe is a service BUSINESS, not a non-profit service for filmmakers. This is about color film, and no one using it to make 16mm prints. It is amazing that the service lasted this long. What market is there for them anymore? Theres a bigger market than you might think but it's an aside to the main 35mm buisness which is more profitable. With the lack of capacity at labs in the UK at this point, it makes sense to focus on 35mm, which is more profitable, than to put some of that capacity into 16mm. Same reason Kodak would never return my calls, or on occasion, refused to sell me products, it just wasn't worth the time which could be spent at the film studios focussing on real buisness. Instead of sitting here on the internet, make a 16mm film and print film dailies! Show them, not with words and petitions, but with actions what a huge mistake they made counting the ECP market out. The lab community appreciates each and every foot of ECN and ECP that you order. I don't think that's true, every 16mm order they process is taking capacity away from proper 35mm work for huge companies that order lots and lots. Some customers are just more important than others. love Freya Edited February 28, 2011 by Freya Black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freya Black Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Also mentioned in the thread, there's "Film And Photo" in the Uk as well, although I have to confess I didn't find them all that helpful/friendly on the one occasion I tried contacting them - hey ho, perhaps it was just me. <shrug> It's not just you! There is also the problem that their minimums are high and their prices also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Lewis Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Over 5000 signatures on the petition now...who would have thought it? Perhaps 16mm is signifcant after all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now