Butterflies: Avenger Foldaway or Matthews Quik Corner?

[Mark Kenfield]

Hi Guys,

 

Looking to add a proper overhead butterfly frame to my kit (I'm sick of jury-rigging bedsheets in awkward places), and I'm tossing up between the Matthews Quick Corner frames and the Avenger Foldaway frames.

 

I haven't seen either in the flesh, and no one in my state stocks them, so it's going to be one of those delightful sight-unseen purchases - so I'd really appreciate any feedback anyone has.

 

I'm looking at getting either a 6' or 8' for starters. I'd prefer 8', but I suspect 6' would be more versatile so far as being able to bring it indoors, mount it with single stand etc.

 

Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

Cheers,

Mark

[Mark Kenfield]

Hey guys,

 

 

Today I stumbled across the Lastolite "Skylite Rapid" system in a stills photography store. And it looks like a brilliant system, far and away the quickest overhead butterfly system I've ever seen - it packs up and down super fast, and the frame is very rigid and secure, and it uses customised Avenger D200 grip heads to hold the frame (which makes it rather less fuss to manoeuvre than some systems I've seen.

 

The 'big' lastolite is only a 2m x 2m frame (6.6' x 6.6'), but I think that's the size I want for my kit anyway as it's easier to get indoors (i've been tossing up between 6'x6' and 8'x8' until now).

 

So on the whole, it looks like a great system. The only downside is that you're kinda locked in to the Lastolite fabrics (unless you customised some regular silks/grids to mount to it).

 

 

So it seems like a good choice, I'm just wondering if anyone has encountered the Lastolite 'rapid' systems before? What people have thought of them? And whether anyone has any suggestions on which route to take?

 

Cheers,

 

 

Mark

[Tim Tyler]

It would seem that the main advantage of that system, Mark, is its light weight. It is not particularly inexpensive and the available sizes are unconventional so it won't fit industry standard rags and accessories.

 

If more weight is not a problem then I recommend you consider standard butterfly hardware. Four corners and two ears for 3/4" square tubing will cost under $100(US) and will fit aluminum pipe that you can source locally. Because it's standard, any crew on any set will know how to set it up properly and you can be sure that it is safe. You can use the same frame hardware on different length tubing to achieve a variety of butterfly sizes. With a standard butterfly frame you will be able to buy or rent a wide variety of rags to fit it.

[Matthew Parnell]

For 6x6 it's common here in Australia to use 25mm aluminium box and use plastic corners like these http://www.bunnings.com.au/connect-it-2-way-corner-joiner_p1138466 . Being a standard size you can get the rags you need pretty cheaply.

 

In 6x6 the plastic corners are really quite strong, the frame is really light, making it very easy for two to hand hold it for tracking shots ect. Also it's very cost effective.

 

I find the foldaway design to be seriously over engineered for a 6x6 frame and a little too heavy.

[Mark Kenfield]

Thanks fellas,

 

You're right, it does make a lot more sense to just opt for regular hardware store components and conventional rags - all of the manufacturer's options end up costing around $700-$800 (and that's often just for the frame components) which is ridiculous for four pieces of aluminium tubing.

 

I'll just build a couple of them myself.

 

Are there any good, quick rag-mounting solutions you'd recommend? Tying them down with strings always seems to take an inordinate amount of time.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

[JD Hartman]

8x8 is more usefull outside (almost double the coverage of a 6x6), but you'll find yourself using a 6x6 inside a house more often that not (less chance of scraping ceilings, walls, etc.).

[andrew ward]

Oh btw the little bungee things that have a clip on them are imo better than tieing knots. Dunno where youd get em.

 

If its a shoot through 6by inside id normally just put the corner elastics on and not bother tying it. I never understand why if its diff we dont just use the 2 side poles and not a whole frame. So much easier to walk it around etc. You can just spin all the textile up on a pole and lean it against something till you need it. But noone does that but me :(

[Mark Kenfield]

For 6x6 it's common here in Australia to use 25mm aluminium box and use plastic corners like these http://www.bunnings.com.au/connect-it-2-way-corner-joiner_p1138466 . Being a standard size you can get the rags you need pretty cheaply.

 

In 6x6 the plastic corners are really quite strong, the frame is really light, making it very easy for two to hand hold it for tracking shots ect. Also it's very cost effective.

 

I find the foldaway design to be seriously over engineered for a 6x6 frame and a little too heavy.

 

What do you use for mounting Bunnings-style frames to stands Matt? Just a Cardellini clamp on either side?

[andrew ward]

You can get frame ears for that size.

 

Or Cardellinis.

 

I knew a gaffer who used Platypus's on 12bys. Weird.

 

 

Get a bunch of spare corners.

 

If youre really ninja, rivet velcro to each end of one pole so they tie together. But you need clip on ears or youll be annoyed when you want to put an ear on the pole with the velcro.

 

Remember to get the aluminium cut to the right size. Ive had a 6by cut too small as they allowed for corners and ties wrongly. Easiest to put a textile on and measure it.

 

If you use these kinda frames you can do stuff like 12x6, 12x4, 8x4 etc and tie the overrun textile back to itself on the overhang.

[andrew ward]

Capral have frame and corners. I think the extrusions 12ft or so before its cut to size.

[andrew ward]

Also, per your earlier post, a 6bys more useful than an 8, get a 6by then get an 8by when youre richer. Youll smash less chandeliers and priceless vases in rich jerks houses that way.

 

And you cant put a 6by on a single stand easily.

[andrew ward]

Actually, i do a 6by with a cstick behind it quite often, or just a top bar with a draped textile, but you wouldnt normally put a 6by frame on one stand if you didnt suck like I.

[Mark Kenfield]

Cheers Andrew, appreciate the suggestions!

 

I've just stumbled across these locking-style corners, which are pretty reasonably priced (about $40 each, i.e. $160 for four corners), and would obviously hold things together rather more rigidly than the plastic corners (and knowing my luck that probably counts for something):

 

 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/143579-REG/Matthews_409100_1_Corner_for_1_Square.html

 

What do people think of those as an alternative?

 

The matching ears are $60, which has me thinking that adding a couple more Cardellinis to the kit is probably a wiser investment.

[andrew ward]

You can get away with plastic corners for 6bys.

And i dont think ive ever used those rope hole things, i just find they get it the way of the ties or elastics. But youll need em when you move up to 12bys anyway, so depends if youve got the money.

 

Having extra cardellinis is more useful than ears but its nice to have proper flip flop ears when you can afford them.

[Toby Orzano]

I like the Modern Studio hardware. Scroll down to 1" hardware and you will see a variety of corners and ears.

[Stuart Brereton]

May I suggest corners from here:

 

http://eztube.com/products/connectors

 

and tube from here:

 

http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?id=70&step=2&top_cat=60

[andrew ward]

Hes in Australia.

[Stuart Brereton]

I'm sure there are Australian equivalents.

[andrew ward]

Yeah Capral and Bunnings.

[Mark Kenfield]

Oh, those snap-lock corners look handy, I'll try and find some of those down here. Thanks Stuart.

[andrew ward]

Capral has aluminum theyll cut to size, and plastic ears.

[Spencer Johnston]

Just taught a lighting workshop; got to use the Matthews Quick Corner system. Was not overly impressed.

The joining corner thing is kind of cute with the lil spring loaded pins, but the inline joining of the 4' pieces to make the 8' sides did not impress me. The fit is way too snug, and I can see even a minor drop or bump bending the pin or receiver to make it a pain in the ass or even impossible to separate or put together.

Plus, the frame twists way too much, would not buy. Rather just get some 2" pipe and elbows

The problem is that its too "quick". There's no actual screw tension in any of the connection points which is what causes the frame to twist so easily.