Haze, night, and wooded areas

[Graeme McMahon]

Hi,

 

I heading overseas soon to shoot a picture very soon. I'm not from a cold climate, so it is hard to test, but we are aiming to shoot the night exteriors like these reference pics attached. Basically, lighting the haze so there is an omnipresent light source (being the haze), that separates the layers of trees and characters.

 

I'm making a assumption these are shot with a high soft backlight. Working with a modest budget, anyone can help me with ideas to achieve this look please?

 

My idea at this stage it to string up a horizontal line of lights (tied up into trees in the BG), maybe open faced blondes flooded, every 5 meters apart, back lighting the scene (my cheaper method). More slower and costly way I am also thinking is two or tree scaffold towers in the BG with 10 x 10 frames on them, either bouncing or shooting light through them.

 

Thanks.

 

Gra

[David Mullen ASC]

You could also light the smoke from below, as Shelly Johnson did in "The Wolfman":

 

 

 

 

The trick is to have the action on a low hill or rise so that you have room to light from below. The advantage is that you can shoot low angles.

[Guy Holt]

 

 

The trick is to have the action on a low hill or rise so that you have room to light from below. The advantage is that you can shoot low angles.

 

The trick to lighting the haze so there is an omnipresent light source (being the haze), is to use a very even diffuse source. Blondes strung over-head or on scaffold towers would probably be too sourcie (sp?) to work. How Shelly Johnson was able to separate the layers of trees and characters by lighting haze was, as David posted, to use large lights far down an embankment and diffuse them heavily so that they would spread evenly before reaching the action area.

 

The 6' Color Kinetics ColorBlaze 72 RGB LED

 

A low budget approach that would accomplish the same thing without a steep embankment or large HMIs would be to use a ground row of Color Kinetic ColorBlaze 72 LED fixtures. Each fixture is 6 feet long and can be strung end-to-end to cover a long distance. If you use the newer dmx four channel RGBA fixture, you will be able to dial in with a dimmer board the color blue you want without losing output to color gels as you would with your quartz blondes. And with a maximum draw of 420 Watts at full output you can operate up to 15 of them (enough to cover 120 linear feet) on a 7500W modified Honda EU6500is - which will save you having to run feeder cables through the woods (there is nothing worst than running cable through woods at night.) In fact, you could probably light your entire night scene with nothing more than a couple of 7500W Honda EU6500is portables just as the makers of “Gasp” did (pictures attached).

 

 

But, beware, their power factor deteriorates as they are dimmed or only single color emitters are used. Which means that they will draw current rich in harmonic distortion, which will have severe adverse effects on most portable generators. The harmonics generated by these lights, and any other non-Power Factor Corrected sources (HMIs, KINOs, LEDS) you might use, can cause severe voltage waveform distortion and higher than normal return current on the main neutral conductor which can result in it overheating and catching fire.

 

Night exterior beach campfire scene lit with only a 7500W modified Honda EU6500is portable generator

 

For this reason, I would not operate them on conventional AVR putt-putts through splitter boxes, but only through an inverter generator (like the Honda EU6500is) and a transformer/distro with super neutrals (use this link for details.)

 

Guy Holt, Gaffer, ScreenLight & Grip, Lighting Rental and Sales in Boston

[Graeme McMahon]

Wow, thanks lads, exactly what I needed. Was going to try and test the low angle approach for expedience.

 

Need to ask, yes, a soft source, but how big does the frame have to be and how many? In the second frame grab from Mr. Mullen, that is ideal, to me thought, the light source looks more 3/4 back light as opposed to backlit.

 

I'm thinking of doing a scale test shoot, garage to stop fog from escaping, toys for actors, pot plants for trees. Has anyone done this before?

 

Thanks

[David Mullen ASC]

You don't need soft lights but you need enough multiple hard lights to create a lot of spread -- Shelly Johnson told me that when he did the same effect for the Percy Jackson sequel, he used rows of multi-bank lamps like 12-lights, etc. He also told me you need a lot of smoke evenly hazing the area to spread the light.

 

A row of 2K blondes would work if you have enough of them.

[Simon Osaji]

Hi guys. I’m sorry if this isn’t the right place for this question. I’m still figuring out how to tag posts correctly on the right forums, so I usually ask questions on existing posts that are similar to my query.

I’m trying to get a look like this on low.

The wide will be silhouette while the single shot CU and Medium will look like ambient but with enough exposure to see their faces without it looking fake. Subjects are mix of deep brown and darker complexions.
I want the trees to have some highlights too.

I want the overall image to feel gritty.

The  people will be running at some point.

We might be able to afford one m40 and couple of 1200 Aputures and matlight.
Will I need big diffusions like a 12by 

Any ideas on how to go about this?

 

[Aapo Lettinen]

1 hour ago, Simon Osaji said:

Hi guys. I’m sorry if this isn’t the right place for this question. I’m still figuring out how to tag posts correctly on the right forums, so I usually ask questions on existing posts that are similar to my query.

I’m trying to get a look like this on low.

The wide will be silhouette while the single shot CU and Medium will look like ambient but with enough exposure to see their faces without it looking fake. Subjects are mix of deep brown and darker complexions.
I want the trees to have some highlights too.

I want the overall image to feel gritty.

The  people will be running at some point.

We might be able to afford one m40 and couple of 1200 Aputures and matlight.
Will I need big diffusions like a 12by 

Any ideas on how to go about this?

 

For closer shots you will need something lower power, relatively soft and easily controllable. something like 150w or 300w cob led with large-ish softbox and grid, dimmed way down and on battery power could be useful. or mat lights with box and grid. It does not need much power but it needs to be very controllable and easy to move from shot to shot.

the background would need hard light, one big source and some smaller ones to cover sides if the biggest light is not super powerful and far away. you need to get it pretty high up to get that effect, the easiest is to have it uphill if possible by the terrain but otherwise you probably need to rent heavy equipment to get it high enough like 25 - 30 meters high at least for that look.

smoke is relatively easy to spread by blowing continuous hazer smoke with fan to long tube which has holes at regular intervals. On arts projects I used to just buy a 200m - 300m roll of cheapest layflat tube I could find and run a half circle or 3/4 circle around the set upwind far enough away that it does not show in the widest shot. Usually took from 50m to 90m of tube depending on the set and terrain. then puching small holes to the tube and filling it with smoke. it usually spreads pretty well and you can adjust the air/smoke ratio in the tube and the hole count + size and shape to control how it spreads. You can collect the tubing after use to large garbage bag and reuse it the next day but if storing for multiple days it tends to catch mold and needs to be thrown away. So can be used couple of times but will go bad during the shooting week and needs to be replaced at some point. holes can be repaired with tape as long as it is not too shred to pieces

Edited April 13 by Aapo Lettinen

[Aapo Lettinen]

with larger diffusion it would become harder to control the spill and spread, you would lose some contrast on the background shadows and it could behave weirdly with the haze/smoke. If using them I would limit the size of the frame to something more easily controllable like 6x6 style or very max 8x8 style and try to go with softbox+grid approach for closer shots if possible, adding the frame in between only if necessary and using only the part of the frame you actually need for each shot, not filling it fully if not absolutely needed. 

I personally like to go with something like about 3x3 or 4x4 frame or similar sized softbox as a talent key for that kind of Mediums. Or bouncing from 4x4 styro as the key. if you can see eye reflections it can be pretty handy to have round or octa softbox on cob led to get round-ish eye reflections. If the rectangular reflections don't matter then a lightmat with controlling gear (softbox, grid, etc stuff added) would work too. It does not need to be very large sized or very powerful but it needs to be fast to move and controllable and dimmable

Edited April 13 by Aapo Lettinen

[Simon Osaji]

Unfortunately there isn’t enough budget for the multiple apertures or even a m40.

I’m considering using 5k tungsten for the hard background light, then key and fill with mat lights.

I haven’t used tungsten for a night scene before.

Would this fixtures work?

[Aapo Lettinen]

13 minutes ago, Simon Osaji said:

Unfortunately there isn’t enough budget for the multiple apertures or even a m40.

I’m considering using 5k tungsten for the hard background light, then key and fill with mat lights.

I haven’t used tungsten for a night scene before.

Would this fixtures work?

Yes you could make it work for kind of similar type of stuff if you have possibility to place it right. Depending on where the 5k ends up and how far away it is and how wide the shots and how thick the smoke is, you may need to gain the camera quit much even with fast lenses. I would expect to shoot this at somewhere around iso3200 or iso 4000 depending on conditions.

A single large led or hmi would be better than the 5k I think so if you can get single 1200w led or 1800w to 2500w hmi it would be better than the 5k for this by my opinion. 

On the other hand if you have lots of power on set and can't have leds or hmi, you could rig the 5k and have couple of extra 1k's, for example pars, to point out details in the background. That could look better than single large hmi or led fixture would have looked.

Mat lights are fine for foreground. Take softboxes and grids and diffusion and some floppy flags to control them fully

Edited April 13 by Aapo Lettinen

[Simon Osaji]

I meant to say multiple 5Ks, I can get up to four or six.

Would a 4x4 not look harsh for a medium?

I’m also thinking i would need an extra soft source for the medium to have little details on the trees closer to the subject so it doesn’t fall to black.

[Simon Osaji]

Five 1200w led or one m40 with two 1200w led, which one, which option would be more suitable?

[Aapo Lettinen]

If you can get the m40 then I would get that and cheap on the 1200s if necessary to save other costs. Like taking the m40, one 1200 and one 600 leds. 

If having multiple 5ks they can create quite a lot too but the m40 is still more useful for this look if having dino/lift to get it high enough and far enough

[Simon Osaji]

I’m going with this, one m40 with two 1200w led, three 5K’s in case I need to raise exposure slightly.

We can’t afford a dino lift, what if the M40 is about 20ft high, coming from 3/4 backlight angle? 

[Aapo Lettinen]

20ft might be a little low but if you can position the camera so that the light hotspot is hid by a tree or branch then it should look nice even if the light is lower than optimal.  If there is hillside/higher ground somewhere in the background which allows getting the light even a little bit higher than the stand can reach on its own it will help the look more 🙂 

the "hide the hotspot behind a tree or leaves or anything" has worked pretty well on all low budget shoots I have been in so if the light is a little too low so that you can see it in the frame, move the camera or light a little to hide the brightest part of the fixture from the camera lens.

the largest light pointing to the general direction of the camera and the additional smaller lights pointing out details and lighting the sides which the large light's beam can't reach