(Help) Pretty please

[Khalid Khan]

Hi guys,

I have a bit of a conundrum to ask.

What sort of experience does one need to get work experience at a rental (kit) house. I recently found out that to work as a camera operator, for films or TV etc you need to work your way up as a camera trainee. Getting a camera trainee internship for film is one thing but getting entry level work experience to work for rental is another. I have worked for the NHS and TEDx whilst studying at University, but I feel though as this might not be enough to get work experience at rental kit house.

I have listed all the rental companies near Manchester (UK) (I am from Blackpool, around 1 hour and 30mins away from Manchester), there only seems to be a handful of kit houses. My biggest fear is that I will get rejected due to lack of customer service.

Any advice is helpful
Thanks !

Edited July 8, 2016 by Khalid Khan

[David Mullen ASC]

Best thing would be to talk to the rental house and ask what they are looking for in general.

[Satsuki Murashige]

It depends on what kind of job you're applying for. Most likely, you'll be starting out as an intern and then moving up to prep tech after maybe 6 months to a year. There's minimal experience you need to have for a job like that - mostly have a good attitude, be willing to learn and do anything, don't talk too much, pay attention. Interns mostly end up cleaning equipment, scrubbing cases, moving boxes around, learning the inventory and how that particular shop's system operates, driving to other rental houses to pick up and return sub-rented gear, etc. You'll be watched to see if you are capable, trustworthy, ambitious, responsible, and have the people skills to move up to a higher position. Make yourself indispensable, and you'll always have a job.

 

Probably the best thing you can do is visit different rental houses and get to know the people there. Most new interns that I see are found through referrals.

[Khalid Khan]

Best thing would be to talk to the rental house and ask what they are looking for in general.

I have heard the taking the DIT route is the best course of action to take when becoming a cinematographer? Or is it all about nepotism ?

[Brian Drysdale]

Are you trying to become a cinematographer or work in a rental house?

[Satsuki Murashige]

I have heard the taking the DIT route is the best course of action to take when becoming a cinematographer? Or is it all about nepotism ?

There is no best or fastest route. You need to have a demo reel to get work. And you need contacts in the industry on the crew side and the production side. Not to mention the skills and experience on set and managing a crew. This usually takes people about 10+ years to develop these three things to the level where you can get high enough budget work to make a living at it. Some do it quicker by working extra hard or being in the right place at the right time.

 

The best thing you can do is constantly put yourself in a position to meet the people who are at the level where you want to be. Which means moving to an area with the most opportunity to grow, usually a big city industry center like LA, New York, London, Vancouver, etc. And then working as a camera PA or rental house tech so you can meet working 1st ACs who might take you on set as a loader or 2nd AC. Or if you want to go towards the lighting side, then work at a G&E rental house and hope the rental manager will send you out as a Grip or Electrician once you learn all the gear. That's probably the most common path, but DPs also come out of the VFX and post world, the still photography world, all kinds of places.

[Khalid Khan]

There is no best or fastest route. You need to have a demo reel to get work. And you need contacts in the industry on the crew side and the production side. Not to mention the skills and experience on set and managing a crew. This usually takes people about 10+ years to develop these three things to the level where you can get high enough budget work to make a living at it. Some do it quicker by working extra hard or being in the right place at the right time.

 

The best thing you can do is constantly put yourself in a position to meet the people who are at the level where you want to be. Which means moving to an area with the most opportunity to grow, usually a big city industry center like LA, New York, London, Vancouver, etc. And then working as a camera PA or rental house tech so you can meet working 1st ACs who might take you on set as a loader or 2nd AC. Or if you want to go towards the lighting side, then work at a G&E rental house and hope the rental manager will send you out as a Grip or Electrician once you learn all the gear. That's probably the most common path, but DPs also come out of the VFX and post world, the still photography world, all kinds of places.

Thank you! I'll let you guys know if anything happens.

[Khalid Khan]

Are you trying to become a cinematographer or work in a rental house?

A cinematographer, I didn't want to sound like another kid trying to become a cinematographer.

[Khalid Khan]

1 more question guys, what is the name of the job role called if one is working in a rental house ? 'cleaning equipment, scrubbing cases, moving boxes around, learning the inventory' I need to get work experience first not an internship. Whats the name called if youre not working as a internship but you're cleaning equipment, scrubbing cases, moving boxes aound etc.

 

Thank you.

[Brian Drysdale]

In the UK work experience is what you do when on a course. It's not unusual for students to do this for a week or two, however, it doesn't qualify you for anything on it's own. If you're in the UK there are camera trainee schemes.

 

Camera trainees often clean equipment, move cases etc, since that's part of the job in the camera department.

 

I'd read about the camera department here: http://creativeskillset.org/creative_industries/film

[Phil Rhodes]

Khalid, I hate to be a downer, but I'm going to put out some sad facts.

 

The UK has practically no film industry.

 

That which does exist is basically a service industry making American films. Even if you do manage to get involved in that stuff, you are never likely to become a cinematographer on them, ever, unless you have a route to a US work permit.

 

The number of jobs available in camera departments of the type you're probably thinking of is well under ten a year, nationwide. Since the country is about to enter a severe financial depression, that is likely to contract even further. Unless you have some sort of connection through friends or family, forget about it.

 

Trainee positions, internships, and other low-end employment are frequently used as ways to employ people on unlivably low wages. You will need to be in London, and you will need to survive on at best seventy or so days' employment a year, at camera trainee rates which are currently about £100/day.

 

If you can survive on £7000/year in London, great, because you must then have very rich parents who can buy you a £500,000 flat there.

 

And that would be based on your becoming a very successful, in-demand camera trainee. Because there are almost no jobs available, the likelihood of your advancing from that point is effectively zero. When you get bored, run out of money, or start looking for advancement, they'll stop using you, and get someone else.

 

Most of the advice you will get in this thread will be from the American point of view, where things are very, very different. In the UK, you may as well ask to become an astronaut.

 

P

[Brian Drysdale]

If you're talking about rental work in Manchester, it's going to be for television, not film related.

[Phil Rhodes]

The situation is much the same, I fear.

[Satsuki Murashige]

1 more question guys, what is the name of the job role called if one is working in a rental house ? 'cleaning equipment, scrubbing cases, moving boxes around, learning the inventory' I need to get work experience first not an internship. Whats the name called if youre not working as a internship but you're cleaning equipment, scrubbing cases, moving boxes aound etc.

 

Thank you.

Prep Technician or Floor Technician. Like I said before, you probably won't be hired to do that unless you are willing to start as an intern, or you have already worked at a different rental house and can show referrals. Like most things in this life, you have to start at the bottom and work your way up, one step at a time.

[Satsuki Murashige]

Maybe one way to make this work is to get an internship locally at a rental house, work your way up to prep tech, do that for about a year to gain experience and live with family to save money.

 

Then apply for a job as a prep tech at Panavision UK using your work experience. With a job secured in London, rent a cheap apartment with flat mates using your savings, and make a go of it until you can learn the gear and meet enough working 1st ACs to get them to take you on as a camera trainee, PA, loader, etc. Then start working on set, keep meeting people, work your way up the ladder. Possible?

[Khalid Khan]

Maybe one way to make this work is to get an internship locally at a rental house, work your way up to prep tech, do that for about a year to gain experience and live with family to save money.

 

Then apply for a job as a prep tech at Panavision UK using your work experience. With a job secured in London, rent a cheap apartment with flat mates using your savings, and make a go of it until you can learn the gear and meet enough working 1st ACs to get them to take you on as a camera trainee, PA, loader, etc. Then start working on set, keep meeting people, work your way up the ladder. Possible?

 

Yes, very much so. I suppose I will only get an 'internship' once I hold a diving licence. In the process of trying to get one. I asked 'work experience' because it sounds cheaper than 'internship', (I'm talking financially here) I believe I don't need to get paid If I am getting work experience whereas internship you have to get paid. And by this i mean, some rental houses might not have the money to facilitate me as in internship. Who knows, I might be wrong here. I'll try my best.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Khalid Khan

[Satsuki Murashige]

Definitely get that driver's license, you'll be much less employable without one. Other useful skills to have are soldering, machining, and a basic understanding of electricity and wiring.

 

If the rental house is going to pay you, take the wages of course. Don't offer to work for free up front! If it's an internship the pay won't be much anyway. Just keep working towards your goal and plan at least two steps ahead so you stay on track. Every move you make should bring you closer to your final goal.

[Khalid Khan]

Hello,

 

I'm here to tell you guys what has happened so far.

 

Things aren't looking too good. I have applied at every rental company I could find near me. Most gave me an email back saying ' Unfortunately we don't have any positions available at the moment, but I'll keep your details on file, should the situation change' or the one that is a bit scary is 'We don’t unfortunately offer work experience due to insurance rules.' Please understand,I am applying for work experience at the moment, I dont want a job offer for obvious reasons. So what do I do now ? I am working in a Fish & Chips shop (on weekends) at the moment because I am literally doing nothing at home and I am waiting for my passport renewal so can hold a driving licence which will take a couple of months to pass. I applied to a camera trainee feature film 1 year stop motion job offer but didn't hear anything back because they probably wanted experience. I am even willing to work for free even though its advised not to.

 

Many thanks

Khalid.

[Brian Drysdale]

The company would still need insurance cover in case there was an accident on their site. I suspect if you were on a course, the college would have such cover for all their students on work experience/ if you were working for a production company checking out kit, you'd be on their cover. .

 

The first reply will be the one you should expect, having any positions available will be the exemption. Going around in person for quick chats would be the best way, so they get to know you. .

 

I know one !st AC who wouldn't give a trainee camera position unless the person had been doing at least a year of trainee applications and chats..

[Phil Rhodes]

I hate to say I told you so.

 

Unfortunately, if you want to get involved in the sort of single-camera filmmaking that most people have in mind when they start to think about this sort of thing, your chances are very, very remote.

 

P

[Khalid Khan]

I hate to say I told you so.

 

Unfortunately, if you want to get involved in the sort of single-camera filmmaking that most people have in mind when they start to think about this sort of thing, your chances are very, very remote.

 

P

 

I'll prove you wrong. You might have experience but ill try.

[Phil Rhodes]

Try, by all means, but have a plan B.

 

And don't try for too long, otherwise you'll be 30 and still looking for the next worthwhile freebie.

 

P

[Khalid Khan]

Hi all, I hope everyone is doing well. Here is a bit of an update.

 

I have managed to secure a camera trainee placement in my home-town, however, the company I work for focuses on corporate/wedding videos, so I'm not going in the right direction yet but its something for now. In addition to this, its also part-time, so I'm not on the run 24/7 with them.

 

In my spare time, I've managed to get some work experience lined in Panavision (Manchester) however when I was on the phone they told me to ring them back in a couple of weeks time as they said they were busy. I guess this was around peak season as I rang them in early September. I waited for approximately 4 weeks until I rang them last week and bam ! Same story again, although they said to ring them (Panavsion) this week. The last thing I wanted to do was to leave an impression that I was pestering them. I emailed them a couple of days ago and I haven't had any response, as a matter of fact, I emailed the person that was charge of my work experience. I also spoke to her on the phone. She was kind enough to give me their (Panavision's) database with all their camera operators/dops/grips/camera trainees etc With their contact email address and phone numbers etc, she told me to email some of the people. I'm obviously not going to email anyone at this stage as I don't have experience being on set, let alone having experience with cine cameras.

 

This is what Panavision said to me;

 

"Hi Khalid,

 

Please find attached a copy of our crew list. As mentioned on the phone do feel free to give us a shout in a couple of weeks about coming in to go over equipment.

 

Kind regards, Panavision"

 

I emailed back Panavision but I haven't heard anything yet. So what should I do?

 

In other news,

 

I emailed Arri (London) and they told me to get back to them in January as they are fully booked until the new year.

 

And lastly, I have been watching and learning how ARRI, RED, and CANON cameras operate on YouTube (workshops) and coming from a DSLR background, most of cine cameras operate very similar to DSLR cameras. I am also familiar with the principles of how these cameras operate such as setting exposure, shutter rate, ISO also called EI (Exposure Index) in RED cameras & ARRI cameras, REC 709 colour space, C-LOG, prores codec, raw metadata recording, some even have ND filters built in and so and so forth. So you get the point.

 

Does anything know what I can do? In terms of Panavision & any other general stuff. I am still learning how to drive as that's a MUST in this industry.

 

Many thanks

Khalid.