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C300 Mklll Noise Floor/Hiss


Ian Lishman

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All,

After a life in stills I'm now spending more time in video and on a fast learning curve. Just now I'm struggling with hiss in audio recording. Using a pair of Rode NT55's with my C300 XLR inputs dialled to their midpoint, 5, and keeping levels to just below 0db I'm getting way too much hiss. (Over position 5 on the level dials is unusable owing to hiss). With the xlr's unplugged and headphones in, the hiss is still there at same levels. Only recording at a very low level - say, 3 on the dial - lowers the hiss sufficiently; but this is too low to correctly record the sound.

Am I missing a trick or is the audio noise floor on the C300 Mklll awful?

Thanks, Ian

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I own a C300 MK III and I often plug a Rode NTG 3 into an XLR input and have not noticed the noise floor that you've described, unless I inadvertently set the gain too high.  If the #3 setting is workable, you might consider a more sensitive microphone.

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Hi Ian,

I have been thinking about your "hiss" issue, and wonder if you had made any adjustments in the audio menu where there is the option to alter the microphone's input sensitivity?  Boosting the preamp gain could cause hiss.  However, I once again connected my Rode NTG3 to the C300 Mk III with the audio input sensitivity set to default and the XLR1 gain set to '5', and all I heard in my headphones was a faint hum that I do not hear during playback.  Of course, my high frequency hearing could be on the way out (LOL).

Edited by Ron Wilk
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14 hours ago, James Compton said:

Just like studio album recording, microphones of every type, benefit from a pairing with a microphone preamp. There are small ones that will fit into your camera setup, very well.

 

In the past, I have used preamps from Sound Devices and others, and in a studio setup they can be useful, but even the smallest preamps can be a problem for a run and gunner or a solo videographer.  The preamps in the C300 MK III are fairly quiet, and with balanced microphones, properly balancing the input sensitivity with gain reduces or eliminates hiss.  In my experience, even the best portable preamps will introduce noise if not properly adjusted.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Ron/James, thanks so much for the replies which I've only just come across - I thought the website would notify may email of replies but didn't notice I have to 'Follow' the post to enable this. Have now done so. 

I'll be working solo so want to keep set-up and post' as simple as possible; hence I bought the expansion unit so I can record up to 4 xlr mic's, sync'd, to the camera cards. So I'd prefer not to use a preamp if possible.

I'll go check my menus for any poor adjustments but I think everything is as it should be. One thing I noticed was I got the same hiss (through headphones) even when no xlr mic' was plugged in. Should it not have been silent under such circumstance?

Thanks a lot, again.

Ian 

 

Edited by Ian Lishman
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Hi Ian, 

It's probably not a good idea to have the camera's audio module set to mic/48v without an attached load, i.e., microphone.  But if you do, the preamp/s are still engaged, and thus, hiss.  That said, do you hear the hiss only over your headphones, or does it come through during playback in your editing software?  If it's only with headphones, I would check the headphone impedance, since the camera's input requires 32 ohms for the listener to appreciate adequate volume.  And if none of the a-foregoing applies, you might try detaching the expansion unit and see if the hiss persists through the camera's own XLR inputs.  if all else fails, it might be a good idea to give Canon professional video a call and speak with a techie (1 (855) 246-3367‬)

Regards,

Ron

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Thanks, Ron. I remembered it was a no no to run the camera on powered mic' setting without one plugged in, shortly after doing it. Hopefully no damage done in the few seconds I did it. I believe I then tried on the un-powered setting. Yes, the hiss comes through in post. The issue actually came from the camera's inputs - haven't checked with the expansion unit. I'll re-do my checks per your advices above, tomorrow and go from there. Thanks, again. Ian

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I checked the menu settings - attenuation off; trim levels 0. (I'm not sure under what circumstances to change these values; I probably need as course in basic sound recording). Hiss kicks in at approx 4.5 on the input dials on inputs 1 thro 4 on headphones and in post. Same on battery mic' and phantom mic' and with different cables. Rode NT55's obviously aren't the high end in microphones but surely shouldn't be the cause. Canon said today it sounds like there may be a fault. So I'm sending the camera off to them. We'll see what they find. 

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Hi Ian,

I would be interested to hear about your experience with Canon service in re the preamp hiss.  I just rechecked my C300 MK III with my Rode NTG-3, in a quiet room with a pair of Beyer Dynamics DT770 headphones, and realized that the low frequency hum that I had heard before was coming from a ceiling fan. With the fan turned off it is dead quiet, even if I'd increased the input gain almost all of the way.

Regards,

Ron

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Hi Ron,

For sure I'll post the outcome. Your experiences are really helpful to know what I should expect. I'd be ecstatic if my preamps return similar when the camera comes back. Right now it feels like audio is just impossible.

Best, Ian

Edited by Ian Lishman
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So a tach' from Canon called this morning to say he'd compared my unit to their lab' unit and there was no difference. He agreed hiss became steadily worse from just before 5 on the dial and that this must just be how it is. He said mine was the first complaint he'd seen in this regard. I asked him to escalate the issue with someone above him..

 

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Hi Ron - the tech asked me to ask you what f/ware version you have on your camera? If they conclude the camera is as it's meant to be I'll hire an NTG-3 for a day and see if it's mic noise from the NT-55's or MKE600 - which I doubt.

My other issue is that page 2 of the udio menu - for inputs 3 & 4 - remains greyed-out when the expansion unit is attached. Tech is looking at this (as a fault) too.

Thanks,

Ian

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Good morning Ian,

My MK III is running Firmware version 1.021.

I find it odd that Canon claims to have found the same noise on their camera.  And the fact that the Tech has claimed that "no one has complained about the noise" is equally troublesome, since if it bothers you I would assume that others would be concerned as well.  I tried a different mic, a Rode NTG 2, and it was equally quiet on channel 1, however, I did not try channel 2 and I do not have an expansion unit.

If you are stuck with that noise you might try EQing it out with a high-pass filter if your editing software provides for that.  I use Resolve 17 Studio, whose audio module provides for EQ adjustments.

Best regards,

Ron

 

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Hi Ron, I really appreciate the efforts you're going to, thank you. It's the only ammo' I've got to support the notion that there's a fault. Can I ask one more favour? Can you give me your serial number to quote to Canon - he raised the idea that there might be a difference between batches.? Perhaps use this site's mail system if you prefer? No worries if you'd prefer not.

Regards,

Ian

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Hi Ian,

I would love to help you out in re the cam's serial number, but I don't feel comfortable advertising that information over the Internet, sorry.  I can tell you that it had been purchased in September of 2021 from B&H, if that is of any assistance.

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Hi Ron,

Before - I spend a fortune on hiring a body to compare against can I beg a favour? Today I noted I get my bgd hiss/noise if I record audio with no mic attached ('mic' setting not 'mic+48', obviously) at gain dial position 4 onwards (Input 1); really noticeable at 5+ and gets worse the higher I go. (I get no bgd noise at all at any setting on 'Line'. It's definitely the camera's pre amps).

Is there any chance you might record a few seconds on 'Mic' with no mic' attached at 5 on the gain dial with menu trim at zero and no attenuation?  If you also get 'hiss'/bgd noise doing this, when playing back in post, then I must conclude this is the nature of the C300's audio.

No problem if it's a sweat. Many thanks,

Ian

Edited by Ian Lishman
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Hi Ian,

I had actually done that before replying to your initial posts and had found no noise/hiss.  I agree, it does sound like noisy preamp/s, but I don't see how Canon can consider that normal.  Now, it is possible that I am experiencing some degree of high frequency hearing loss, but when I look at the audio waveform in Resolve Studio it's a flatline, so its not my hearing.  I only use one mic, and its connected to the #1 XLR connector with the gain set at "5".

Do you hear the hiss if you set the audio input to the camera's internal microphone?

I guess that it is possible that Canon's QC is not up to snuff, and that some units are released with less than perfect preamps.  If they cannot offer a fix I suppose that you are left with 3 options:

1: buy a small external preamp and turn the camera's setting down to where it is quiet.

2: EQ out the hiss in post using your editing software or something like Reaper.

3:  Buy a more sensitive microphone that offers a higher internal gain output, thereby allowing you to turn down the camera's gain.

I wish that I had more to offer.

Best regards,

Ron  

 

Edited by Ron Wilk
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Hi Ron,

Playing catch-up. Thanks very much for the above. Yes, hiss is actually worse on the internal mic in a quiet room. Probably because it's using an auto setting and the pre amp is turning itself up high trying to hear very low level ambient sound. 

That's a great suggestion re: running a recorder into the camera. I might hire one and see if it makes a big enough difference.

Many thanks,

Ian

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Hi Ian,

In re external recorders, you might take a look at the Zoom recorders.  I have an H6n that to my ears is quiet.  It offers fantom power, XLR inputs and audio filters. It is not very large and is not awfully heavy either.  A carry case is available that can be belt mounted, or with an inexpensive cold shoe to 1/4 " adapter it can be mounted to the cold shoe mount on the C300's handle. I have yet to use it with the C300, but I have used it with my Panasonic S1h and it worked very well.

Regards,

Ron

Edited by Ron Wilk
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Thanks Ron, mentioned Zoom in my PM. Like the look of the F8N Pro owing to its 32 bit float recording - no chance of clipping? Though I could set that in the camera, I guess and consider the F3 or F6..

Best, I

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33 minutes ago, Ian Lishman said:

Thanks Ron, mentioned Zoom in my PM. Like the look of the F8N Pro owing to its 32 bit float recording - no chance of clipping? Though I could set that in the camera, I guess and consider the F3 or F6..

Best, I

Hi Ian,

The F8Npro looks very nice, but it does not appear to be as portable as the H6n.  I have several Sound Devices preamps that I have not used in years because of size and weight issues, as well as various other recorders from Roland, Tascam and so on—I could open my own used equipment store.  By F3 or F6 are you referring to the Sony video cams?

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