Matthew Rogers

You know Phil, I don't recall you saying that you had shot a project on the RED yet... How can you tell exactly what it can and can not do unless you actually test it? Matthew

First, Che was shot on somewhere between build 1 and 4 I believe. There have been huge image quality gains since then. In fact, my tests from going to build 16 from 15 showed much less noise in the image. Second, the trailer for Che looks like total crap. It is some of the most plastic looking RED footage I have ever seen. However, people who have actually seen it in the theater said that it looked 100 times better than the trailer. Uhh, why did you over expose it in the first place? False color mode tells you exactly what's at what exposure in your frame (and what's clipped), so you don't go into post guessing at what you've got to work with. You didn't spend any time researching the problems you might have with the RED? I mean, the IR issue has been fairly well documented on both Reduser and here. Did you have more than .9 ND on the camera btw? I've had one issue with funky colors, but that had to do with 2ft tungsten kinos. Put a little magenta gel on it and it looked great. Are you talking about the internal fans coming on or did you have to put a fan on it? How were you shooting? Inside or outside in the sun? I've used my RED outside in the sun plenty and had no issues with the camera overheating (although, I haven't used it in over 95 degree weather) What are you talking about? I know there are rolling shutter issues, but I've only ever seen it when you are doing a whip pan out of a borne movie. Most handheld use will never see any rolling shutter issues. Heck, ask Geoff Boyle from the CML list. He just did an entire movie handheld I believe and the rolling shutter was NOT one of his issues with the camera. I hate to tell you, but the D21 and the Phantom are still going to have the issue of clipped highlights. Once it's clipped, it's gone. To be honest, it sounds like you didn't do your research about the RED before you used it. If you don't know how to properly use a tool, why do you think you'd get the best possible results out of it? No, the RED doesn't have as much DR as film, but it's also cheaper to shoot with and provides for a faster on set workflow. But, you've got to know how to use it correctly. Matthew

You can shoot 1 - 120fps with the RED no problem (though, over 30fps you have to go to 3k, and over 60fps 2k). The only issue is that you won't be able to record audio on the RED. Set the RED to Varispeed and then adjust it down to the frame rate you want. As far as printing those 6 frames into 24, I know you can do it on a computer, but I don't know of a automatic method. Final Cut Pro might actually do it for you, but I don't know that for a fact. You can record 4k, 3k, 2k all on the same Drive/CF card AS LONG as it stays in the same base frame rate (IE: either 23.98, 24, 25, or 29.97) So if you switch between 23.98 and 29.97, then you'd have to reformat the drive/cf card, before you could switch frame rates. BTW, cutting between 3k/4k looks pretty good. Cutting between 4k/2k is not so great--unless you are going down to 720p/SD (it's acceptable, but if you've got your face stuck up in the monitor you can see the difference.) Matthew

I saw L3 when it was broadcasted here in the US and I didn't think it looked all that great. I've seen much better RED footage on TV than from it. I think Knowing will be a good example. You can see it in a high rez digital print, or a film print. Matthew

1/48 is what you normally shoot at when shooting 24fps. 1/24 gives to much motion blur. Anything above 1/48 is probably going to look too "suttery". Are you seeing flicker, or does the image have a stutter? There is a big difference there. You can get flicker in lights like Kinos and HMI's, but at 24fps, you shouldn't have an issue with most lights. Are are you seeing a stutter when compared to 60i video footage? It depends on the look you are going for. High end spots are normally shot on film at 24fps. Lower end spots are normally shot 60i (30fps). I don't know why you are having issues with stuttering. I've never had an issue with the RED, or any other 24p camera, when shooting 24p. Of course, if you've only ever shot 60i, then 24p might look weird, and you might not like it. Personally, I love it. Doesn't look like reality. You would think so, but when you telecine it up to 29.97 (60i) you are not creating frames with new information. You are actually smartly duplicating certain frames. Personally, I normally edit the entire spot in 24p and when I'm done telecine it up to 29.97. Matthew

I suggest going to a dry cleaner that you trust. They will do a better job at getting the stains out than you can without hurting the silk. Matthew

But at least these are funny! Most ads like this are just annoying bad. Matthew

I have proof that you can shoot a good image and that people doing post can make it looks like dog crap. I shoot commercials for 3 local car dealers (Toyota, Lexus, & Ford) in true 24P 720P HD. While doesn't look like national footage, it looks 500 times better than "local" car ads. I try to make sure I have good backgrounds, nice soft light on the talent, shallow depth of field when I can, and jib/dolly when I can. However, the ad agency that does the post just butchers it! It looks like any other local car ad:( Plus, they don't telecine the 24P so FCP just does it's bad telecine and it looks horribly jittery when it hits broadcast...sigh.......at least it pays really well for just a few hours of shooting! Of course, cable companies charge like $300 to make an ad (when you buy enough airtime)...so why should anyone expect it to be very good? Matthew

What will didn't mention was that this was a normal nurse (aka, only had on whatever makeup she put on at home), who was standing over an infant in ICU that had a light over it (tungsten bouncing off the blanket into the nurse's face) and a window with natural light on the left hitting her side. Even without "lighting" skin, the skintones come out very nice on the RED. Matthew

Here is a frame from a short film I DP'ed back in early Sept. on the RED http://www.macvilleproductions.com/larry/A...907RL_00121.jpg I feel like the skin tone on him looks pretty good. It's pretty accurate to what the actor with his makeup on really looked like under the lights. All I do is make sure the talent has good, strong makeup on (if I am using a lot of light), and I've had no issues otherwise. I do monitor off the camera in REC709 instead of Redspace and that seems to help the image a ton (with Redspace on, I find that people tend to underexpose.) If the client is complaining about the slightly desaturated look in REC709, I just bump the saturation to 1.2 or 1.3 and their complaints go away. David, what would you say is the native 0:0:0 of the RED? I've noticed in my tests that I do lose just a slight bit of information when I go to 4:2:2 (but not enough to matter to me since I tend not to push my image that far), but it does make sense that the camera is not capturing a full "4:4:4" image so to speak. Matthew

I think that's why RED is moving towards the REDCODE 225/250 for compression. I know that the new FCP/Color workflow has much less noise now than my previous workflow of rendering ProRes out of RedCine, using Color for CC and then rendering ProRes again out of Color. So then, no Bayer pattern sensor could ever be considered 4:4:4, correct? Even as uncompressed data. What would you rate the RED as then? 4:2:2? 4:4:2? I know other people have been having issues with a more gray skintones, but I have yet to run into that problem. Been getting very nice, accurate skintones when in Rec709. Matthew

Okay, I've seen you say that multiple times and I've finally got to call BS. Since most DI's are done at 2k (just slightly more resolution than 1080P) then a 1080p H264 should give you a good idea about quality. In fact, I would say that if the 1080p H264 download looks good, then the original should look even better since it can be 2k 4:4:4 (instead of the H264's 8-bits.) Now, if you were looking at a 640x480 file, then I might say that you are correct. However, since you can watch the knowing trailer in 1080p and the Crossing the Line trailer in 2k, you should know exactly the quality the RED can produce. On my 1080p 24" monitor here the footage looks great in both ProRes 1080p AND h264 1080p. I know you've also said that because of how broadcasters butcher the signal to get it down their pipes you want to see how the RED looks broadcasted. However, I don't see how a 4:4:4 source tape from film isn't going to be degraded the same amount as a RED 4:4:4 source tape. They should both look bad (and you should be able to see that easily) or they should both look great (if the source was done well.) Matthew

Whatever camera you had had the old style battery plate that did a poor job at holding the battery on the plate. Contact RED about getting a new plate and all your issues will be solved. I had the same issue until I got a new plate. Since then, haven't had a single power outage. That's what insurance is for. I don't really mind my rental gear being thrown around if it's by pros--but that's because what looks like being thrown around isn't even close. Matthew

Wrong. Rosetta will let you run PPC apps on an Intel Mac, but not Intel Mac Apps on a PPC. Otherwise, eventhough RedCine/RedAlert would be slow, it would still work. Yet, when you try to launch either one of those apps (or any other Intel only app), it won't start. Matthew

Why the heck did you post that? From both mine and David's post above you should know that it does fine. Yes, the Red Drive can only take so much abuse, but that's true with ANY hard drive. I doubt that there are many cameras (both film and digital) that a man could stand on an not fail. However, I have seen a picture (and I can't find it right now:() of someone at RED standing on the camera body without a problem. I've thrown my camera around and the only issue I've had with something failing is the battery plate--and that's a bad vendor part issue rather than a RED design issue. RED is a real camera manufacturer and is currently spanking everyone else. Yes, the Genesis may have an extra stop of DR, but how much does it cost (if you could even buy it) and what's the smallest form factor you can get it into for shooting (seems like a big, heavy camera.) Matthew

We shot a short film earlier this fall on a hostess tray hooked on a 1950's Belair with no problems. But like David, we used CF cards. It sucks to have to keep changing CF cards, but that's the game unless you can get 16GB cards or wait for the RED Ram drive. Matthew

Wow. That is incredibly rude. If you don't care, then don't don't read this thread and don't post on it. Matthew

So you guys want to know about real world performance of the RED drive? I just got back this afternoon from shooting a concert last night in Charleston, SC. Yesterday, after we shot all the close ups in rehearsal handheld (about 2 hours worth of shooting), we did a 90 minute concert handheld. Two cameras, both on RED Drives, zero dropped frames. I was slinging the camera up and down because the crappy RED shoulder mount was killing me and yet no dropped frames. Running backstage, all across the stage, jumping off platforms (3ft), standing in front of concert speakers, and accidentally smacking objects could not make the drive mess up. Pretty impressive I think. Still, if it had dropped frames, I would have know instantly. Matthew

Huh? I do not understand what you mean. Funny, my wife's d70 & d80 do not have a shutter--unless the flip up mirror is considered the shutter (and it may be) But I can not see that mirror going up and down 24 times a second. Matthew

I didn't mean a higher frame rate. They both do 24P, I believe, already. The issue is the refresh rate of the sensor. With the slower refresh rate of their sensor, you get a lot of skew in the image. The sensor refresh rate is evidently something RED has worked hard on to try and get as fast as possible. We'll see if their next sensor has a faster speed. I am pretty positive that the DSLR's will never have a shutter like a film camera. I just don't see that happening. The whole reason, I believe, behind this is that more consumers are moving up to DSLR's from their point and shoot and are missing the movie & live view mode. I doubt they are going to go after the filmmaking market. Matthew

Correction, we shot 2:56:39 (forgot my FCP timeline started at 1:00:00). For the most part we didn't just leave the camera running (the most takes we did for any shot was 6 takes and the avg was 2) We did have a few things about this film that did cause us to shoot more--greenscreen footage that appears on a TV in the movie and we shot footage of our actor with a horse. If we had shot film, would we have gotten the best performance? Most of the time yes, but for some, no. Personally, I rather be limited by DR than by performance and money. I have a friend who just shot a short film on 16mm film (he was actually the AC on my short) and I will see what he spent on stock, processing and telecine for editing. Matthew

I don't think the FF35 is a must when renting the RED. The only two advantages I really see to it are possible higher DR and a full frame. By the time they actually ship the Epic, I'm not sure it's still going to have the X chip in it, but it might actually have the same chip as the FF35. Not everyone wants to shoot anamorphic considering the slower lenses and focus is more crucial. Why would you sell your EVF and LCD? They are both supposed to work with all the future cameras. You might want to upgrade to the 1080P EVF, but that's all I can see. Canon and Nikon are going to have to work hard to get their sensors to read faster. The clips that I've seen from both of those cameras look like jello. The other thing is, do you really want to shoot video with a DSLR? It's bad enough shooting with prosumer cameras handheld... I actually think it's kinda silly for RED to be making a "stills" camera that you can change into a motion picture camera. I'd really rather them just focus on the motion picture market and do an excellent job at it. Matthew

You've never used the Focus Hard Drive systems then. As far as I'm concerned, they are pieces of crap. I would have them drop frames and stop recording all the time. Handheld with them was just not possible. I ask again, do any other camera you know tell you when there is a tape dropout while shooting? The thing with the RED is, the frames can only be lost during shooting and not during both like with tape (although, with digital capture you can go back, restart your capture and frame match up where it started dropping frames.) With solid state, you are correct. Shouldn't be dropping frames (and won't.) However, hard drives are still a problem because, as I said before, they can get bumped, dropped, get hit with vibrations while recording. When that happens the camera can't write data so it will just ignore writing those frames. It has nothing to do with copying the data off the hard drive, but with writing. That's the nature of hard drives. They are designed really to sit still and spin--not be jostled around (although, I believe the RED drive does a pretty good job considering it's 2 HD's in a RAID-0 config.) If your shoot requires handheld running, jumping, etc., then the the CF cards or SSD is the way to go. Maybe we are talking about two different things, I'm talking about dropped frames while recording and maybe you are talking about when copying the footage to the computer? I can only see it being cheaper if you got a killer deal on stock, processing, and telecine (if you edit that way.) Here's a real world example that maybe would help both of us put out costs (and maybe I'm totally wrong on shooting film prices, I will be happy to admit it if I am.) For the short I just shot on the RED, my neg cost was $0 (I shot 3:56:39 of footage.) Developing/telecine $0. To print this 14:14 minute movie, it would cost me $350 a minute. 14.25x350= $4987.50. Shooting Kodak 5205 35mm at 3 perf, how much would basically 4 hours of raw stock be? I don't know how many feet per minute at 3 perf, so you will have to figure that out. Plus processing 4 hours of footage. What would that run? Matthew

Did you use that camera handheld or on sticks? Personally, I've never had a single dropped frame while using the RED drive on sticks. I've also never had a dropped frame using the RED drive handheld either. I've shot more on sticks then with the hard drive, but they pretty resilient. The hard drive issue with the RED is the same that you would have on any other camera that uses a hard drive--it all lies in the hard drive. Dropped frames with the RED really isn't an issue unless you are using in a environment that would cause it to drop frames--but again, any other camera would do that with a hard drive. However, RED lets you know if there is an issue. A poorly designed camera wouldn't let you know. Plus, if you are in those situations, just use either a 8gb/16gb CF card, or a 128 GB SSD RED Drive. I don't know what kind of computer you are using, but I haven't had an issue with my computer or hard drives being too slow since I was editing on my 400Mhz Powerbook G3. Unless you are capturing 10 bit uncompressed 1080P, an iMac with a 2 drive RAID-0 will capture most HD formats. However, I have had issues in the past 5 years with tape dropouts (as in, the information is just not on the tape.) To me that is a much bigger concern since I don't know there was an error on the tape until I start to capture it the next day. At least with the RED I know there was an issue and can ask for another take. Do you know how a hard drive works? It's got disks that spin around at either 5600 or 7200 RPM with a needle that floats about, I believe, the width of a human hair above the platters. Bumps, drops, vibrations, and many other elements will affect their operation. The issue is not the camera getting behind, the issue is with the drives operating correctly. I hope you understand this because your statement to me is not communicating that. Correct, an optical print is cheaper to do if you shoot on film. However, if you ever want to go to DVD/Blu-Ray, don't you have to have your film scanned? In reality, I don't see how film would be cheaper to do. With the RED you've got hard drive storage space costs (which is now dirt dirt cheap), and the print out to film if your movie goes that far (most don't). With film you've got raw stock costs, developing, telecine (if you want to edit on a computer--which most do), an optical print, and if you go to home video, a scanning charge. I don't see quite how film would be cheaper (costs would be closer with a film print of digital footage though.) Matthew

Here's the thing, in the correct hands, a R1 can make stunning images. Just because the Epic will come out the end of next summer (which will probably be closer to next winter) doesn't mean the R1 won't still make amazing images. Yes, you won't be able to charge as much for it, but it also might put it in the slightly smaller budget realm that there seem to be more and more jobs for. Even then, an extra $10,500 in a year from now isn't that bad. If you can't make good money off of a RED now, then you probably would not be able to make enough money to justify an Epic in a year. Plus, who has beta cameras that are still making them money? I've had at least three jobs this year that requested beta! That's a 15+ year old technology that's still being used. Matthew