Tyler Purcell

Well, I've "seen" it happen on every forum I've been on. It's not necessarily directed towards me at all. I'm totally ok with being corrected, you may have missed an earlier response where I mention that. What I don't like is being beat on the head and told with authority I don't know what I'm talking about. I think Satsuki explained it above very well... it's hard to remember things you don't do every day. I know my story has been explained before, but in a nutshell... went to college for cinematography, was trained/mentored by a commercial DP, everything was on the up and up. Moved to Los Angeles, did two features back to back, on the 2nd one got burned, needed money and was forced to get a full-time job. I was very angry at the industry, watching friends of mine get screwed as well, I basically gave up on my dream. I spent 10 years completely out of the creative industry and only got back into it because I made such great connections during those years. It's been a very slow build up since late 2013 when I bought my pocket cameras and started shooting once again. Now in 2017, I finally have all the tools necessary to make some great stuff. I've been writing, directing, shooting and editing pretty much non-stop since late 2016. I'll have a great new demo reel, great new website, a lot more connections and hopefully be rewarded by securing some good paying work. Point being.. I have the knowledge, I have the experience, It's just buried under layers of other information. So I know it seems like I don't know jack poop, but I just have so much on my plate, it's hard for me to remember. I will never be a full-time cinematographer, but if you caught me on set, you wouldn't know that. Again, just because you forget things, doesn't mean you're lacking the experience.

Agreed and I do see the conflict. I will for sure make a better attempt to separate opinion from "expert advice" in the future. Sometimes I simply get too excited and just assume everyone knows me, so they understand where I come from, where in reality ya'll don't really know me at all. So yea :)

But it doesn't just happen to me, that's what your missing. It's happened to countless other people on this forum over the few years I've been here. The only reason it happens to me more often, is that I don't give up, I fight back when people hit me on the head with a hammer. Other people simply go away and don't feed the trolls. It's funny, because I've seen this same issue on every forum I've been on, for the last 20 years... and I've been on dozens. There are always a hand-full of older/seasoned members who feel it's their job to correct everyone no matter what they say. There are also people like me, who use the internet forum for what it's suppose to be; an open mic to express their own feelings, opinions and maybe even challenge the status quo. We aren't just a technical resource, we are here to DISCUSS AND SHARE our experiences! Thats the definition of an internet forum, like it or not. ;)

True, but I wasn't asking for help, I didn't need help. I was merely making observations and opinions. If I was asking for help, it would have been an entirely different story. I'm not scared to ask for help, I do it all the time. It's just, I like figuring poop out on my own sometimes. To me, the learning (experimenting) experience is worth the aggravation. Agreed, all good points. Maybe I should reach out more.

Yes it appears I made a snafu. I honestly don't remember my gripe about the CP2's and I will have to check when I get them again. My specs were all over the place and I get that, I wasn't "quoting" spec's and I see my error now that I have the lenses on the camera and re-measured. I'm like duhh... but but but it doesn't matter. What matters is that the hammer of doom came tumbling down upon me. If all you had said was "Re-check those minimal focuses you posted" that would have got me into the garage and I would have come back going "you're right!" Instead, you went off, which led other people to go off, which led to an entire thread about going off on tye. I made a simple mistake that could have been rectified in 10 seconds, had it been pointed out like a gentlemen would have. Measured; Xeen 25mm = 10" and 50mm = 18" Optar MKII 25mm = 9" and 50mm 16" I will measure the CP2's tuesday if I remember. I've seen first hand the stop being cut off Zeiss lenses and them focusing MUCH closer then stock. It's 100% possible and I understand lens companies have their reasoning for NOT doing it, but IT SHOULD BE AN OPTION. Maybe a button you push that gets it into a "special" close focus mode. Point being, it's possible with limited modifications. I will gladly shoot a video of my lens tech showing me this process, but I bet you'd shake your head and say no poop sherlock. I've owned cameras for almost my entire life. My cheapest camera was probably a Sears Super 8 and the most expensive until last year was probably my pocket cameras. You wanna talk about limitations? I've lived and continue to live with huge limitations in everything I shoot and edit. I can't afford fancy equipment and I can't afford to rent it either. Yet for some reason, I still get away with making pretty decent images with what I've got. People pick on me all the time, saying my images could be a lot better, but I hand them my tools and they back off pretty quickly. Sure, sure, I just invested a tun of money in better equipment and yes I also have access to some great stuff, but that's all been in the last few months. I'm still doing post on 3 projects using that stuff, so I have yet to see how much head hammering I get when I post them. :) When I go out of my way to rent equipment for clients that want something better then what I have access to, I'm always upset when I still have to compensate for the limitations as if I was using my own low-end equipment. What's the point of owning a $50k prime lens set if they "function" the same way as a $15k set? What's the point of having a big/heavy camera that uses special file formats and super high resolution, when for the rental budget alone, I can buy an entire camera package that fits the clients needs? I get frustrated because the company is spending a lot of money on rental equipment to hopefully make my life easier, but it never does. Sure, the final image LOOKS better in most cases, but as a cinematographer, is it any easier to use? No... it isn't. I'd say working with more expensive equipment is actually FAR more difficult. It's why I sold my Moviecam and bought an Aaton 35III. A smaller/easier to use package that does the same job. Anyway, these are just my opinions, just random un-scripted thoughts on your comment. I don't care if they're right or wrong in anyone's eyes. I'm not the same person as everyone else and I'm sure as heck not doing the same type of projects. There is no reason for anyone to get into a hissy fit over these comments.

The simple solution in my eyes is to use 250D. I do think there are places where 500T is great, when you're dealing with any "daylight" at all, it's just too darn sensitive. The real power of the stock goes to waste through heavy filtration just to make it workable. Honestly, I work with 50D and 250D for almost everything I shoot. This is partially because I light with HMI's mostly and I have nice glass CTO inserts for my tungsten lights. Really the only time I use 500 is exterior night and heavily controlled interiors with no direct sunlight. So buying a few rolls of 500 for those scenes is always a necessity, but for everything else, just stock up on 250D and if you need more range, push it one stop.

The question is, how does one source the right gear...

Umm, I've talked with many of them about it, they're like "yea kid we already know those things". Everyone in the know, has heard of the formula, it's just a guide, it doesn't mean you'll make any money.

That's because you have no idea what an internet forum is all about.

Does it matter? I learned the formula from very successful people, friends of mine who've been doing this longer then either one of us. Honestly, even though I have desire to make features, I won't just make junk for the sake of making something.

The formula has nothing to do with being a commercial success. It has to do with how to make your movie and get it seen by audiences. Everyone I've ever met in the industry knows the formula like the back of their hand.

I have a tendency to be dramatic, but I probably made a post right after being frustrated using the equipment. I had a shot in my mind that my little pocket camera and shitty $350 glass, could get no problem, but the expensive CP2's and Red Dragon, it was impossible to get. That's pretty frustrating... You gotta give me some slack, it was a very frustrating day. I like to vent about poop that pisses me off because there is no reason for it. Zeiss had ZERO reason to make the CP2's close focus 12+ inches, they could have expanded it because the barrel diameter is so large, there is no way focusing it closer would have vignetted. I hate manufacturers that purposely build-in deficiencies so buyers will spend more money. So here I am with a cheap-ass korean lens that sure, has inferior glass, but it has no problem getting the shot the CP2's couldn't get. You tell me, how FRUSTRATED would you be? At that point, I could care less how bad the glass was, I was just over-joyed I could actually finally get the shots I was looking for.

Satsuki, I survive off my friends and their projects. We have a close/tight group who work together on a regular basis and we all make money. I do dozens of "spec" projects every year, most of them I produce myself. I do this to learn, to expand my group of friends and to get product out there that normally wouldn't get produced due to the time it takes to get funding together. I don't have the money to constantly be renting, so I use what I have available to me. I think you'd find MOST people with a camera, do the same thing. They aren't working professionals, but people who enjoy making content and posting it online. Just look at the daily uploads to YouTube/Vimeo, we're talking tens of thousands every day. How many of those people are paid professionals? Maybe less then 1%? Where I agree with your comment that accuracy is important, I don't think it should trump personal opinion and feelings. Again, just because a spec sheet says X, doesn't mean your "experience" should be discounted. It's super easy for a potential user of a certain product to find a spec sheet. It's not very easy to find an actual user who has experience using said product and is willing to go into details on what they like and don't like. Again, I was simply posting my opinion and experience using a particular product, no more, no less. Does it matter if the shoot I was using it on was a paid gig? No... it doesn't matter. I was still working my ass off, I was still producing a product that a lot of people will see. I've now shot a dozen projects with those CP2's, some paid, some personal. Also, if the back focus was off on any lens, you'd know right away because most of the time we're closer to infinity then we are on the other side of the scale. Anyone with a modicum of experience can put a lens on a camera, look through the viewfinder and tell if a lens has a back focus issue right away. Sure, if it's off by a few micron's, it's not a problem and likewise you'll never notice. Any back focus issue that makes the close focus work entirely different then the spec, is something you'd notice. Never once did I say the lenses I worked with were broken. I simply had an expectation that wasn't met.

Well, every successful filmmaker knows the formula, that's why they're successful.

The markings are completely irrelevant, the specification of the lens is completely irrelevant. If I put a lens on the camera and I turn it until the focus hits the stop, there is no more I can do right? I have to adjust my camera's location in order to get the shot I want. If the lens is at the stop and it doesn't achieve the look I'm after, no testing or measuring will help reach a different conclusion. A technician from Zeiss doesn't magically pop out of my closet and go over the reasoning behind why the lens doesn't focus any closer. I completely understand your point, but I'm not saying the lens is broken or defective. I'm merely stating, what I expect a higher end cinema lens to do, the CP2's didn't do. Yet my cheap-ass, optically inferior Rokonin Xeen's, appeared to not have the same sort of issues. All I was doing is making an observation.

Well, if you want something ultra rare, you'll be paying for it through the nose. Also, making your own 1200ft loads, isn't very smart. I can't imagine glue or tape being very smart on camera negative.

I know of some 800ft mags for XTR's for sale, but for SR's they're pretty rare. I've talked personally with Kodak about making special batches, but they said unless it's a big order, they won't do it. Most content that looks like a single take, is generally cut somewhere and you never notice.

Well, there is a formula... I've written it down and pretty much everyone follows it pretty closely. If you don't have any money, following the formula is impossible. So finding the money is actually the hardest part, once you've got it, the rest is pretty much in the formula.

Look in the mirror Gregg, every one of your posts is disingenuous, with seemingly innocuous questions that give you more fuel for your Troll fire. Now you're trying to TELL me how I should go about writing my posts to try and "avoid" a bad reaction in the future? I'll say this much, I've been on dozens of forums for the last 20 years and there are ALWAYS people like you. Do gooders who have nothing better to do but nitpick what others say and do because they're not up to YOUR personal standards. My response is always the same; too bad.

There is a color monitor attached to a video camera, that's where you see the pattern from. Because I worked for a few years as a bench technician servicing electronics, I've come accustom to calling the display portion of a monitor a "screen" because it differentiates it from the electronics and housing. I apologize if you found the use of the word "screen" misleading.

It was a personal project, I was playing around in the garage shooting a film projector for a project I'm doing with Kodak. I had been using the lenses for the entire year without even contemplating close focus. This is what I mean by "smaller shows"; stuff you do with friends for fun. You shoot with what you've got, there are no other options. Honestly, I own or have free access to all the equipment I normally use; (dragon/F55/Ursa 4.6k/pocket camera, XTR Prod, SR3, Aaton 35III, Moviecam Compact, Arri ST/LT, etc) Almost 80% of my shooting is from that inventory and the rare times I'm out renting something, it's because they've got money. In that case, you bet your ass I'm going over the script like a hawk and making sure I have all the speciality stuff I can fit on the truck. Otherwise, the filmmakers get what they pay for, which is basically whatever I got available. In the last two years, I've rented three times... THREE! So yea, now you understand where I come from.

But Dom, I wasn't posting "information", I wasn't looking at a spec sheet and copying/pasting it online. I was simply writing a comment on my feelings/observation. It was just my personal opinion. When I'm setting up a shot, I'm not looking at the close focus of the lens, I'm putting a lens on the camera and I'm moving the camera around to see what kind of shot I can get. If X lens can't do what I want of it but Y lens can, I will use Y lens. So I don't care WHAT the numbers state. Sure, on a big show when you've got lots of money to blow on specialty lenses, you'd have a truck with all sorts of cool lenses that can do macro/close focus. Unfortunately, on smaller shows... which is 99.95% of everything shot, we basically use what we have. I have a set of CP2's at school that I use all the time, I own a set of Rokinon Xeen's and I own a set of Optar super 16 primes + a 12-120 heavily modified super 16 zeiss zoom. I shoot both Super 16 and Super 35mm, so I know what what each lens does on each format. I was shocked when I put the 50mm CP2 on the Dragon and couldn't get the close focus I was looking for. I had no problem getting it with the S35mm camera and the Rokinon Xeen 50mm. I didn't measure anything, I simply put the focus to the closest it would go where it hit the stop and I altered the position of the camera to compensate. I didn't have nearly the same problems with the Xeen's as I did with the CP2's. You may recall, I made a post about this and you hit me on the head with a hammer. So again... just for clarification, I could care less what Zeiss puts on the side of the lens, or what their spec sheet is. I could care less if the brand new CP2 kit we have is somehow damaged, maybe it is, I don't know. All I DO know is that as a cinematographer on set, in a working environment, I made an observation that the CP2's didn't have nearly the close focus of other lenses I have used in the past. Again, "observation" and that's it, nothing more, nothing less. Since my last CP2 shoot, I have measured all of my Optars (film plane to focused object) and found 2 of them to have far better close focus then the markings on the barrel, WITHOUT vignetting. One was labeled 10" and had 7" and the other was labeled 10" and had 8". I use the Optars 9 times out of 10, so I'm use to how close they focus. The CP2's didn't perform the same way, as you pointed out in a different thread, most likely due to the larger field of view from the S35 imager fooling me. Yet the Rokinon Xeen's performed EXACTLY like the Optars do in terms of close focus. The original point of this thread was to make that OBSERVATION nothing more, nothing less. Again, I wasn't doing a back to back lens test, it was different day's, different locations, different cameras, everything was different. Yet, X lens didn't perform the same way as Y lens, even though they supposedly have similar spec. Isn't that an "interesting" observation? I thought it was, which is why I posted something about it. You made the assumption I was looking at the barrel and that the lens had something technically wrong. Again, as stated above, I could care less what the barrel says. I always put the lens on and see how close it will focus for my own sake. If the 50mm CP2 had close focus of 12" and the 50mm Xeen 10", then that would explain the difference right there. I honestly care so little, I still haven't bothered to look up the spec. The Xeen's solved my problem and as a cinematographer, that's all I was reporting in this post, simple as that. How was it misleading? I saw it with my own eyes. With the lens all the way open, the pattern on the screen was soft, no matter how much adjustment we made to the back focus position. When we stopped the lens down to a bit below F2, the lens became crisp and by 2.8 it looked really crisp and solid. Again, we tested a bunch of other glass and the professional Zeiss lens tech, explained to me how junky the Korean glass is. This test is one of the things he used to prove his point. If he's wrong, then you have a beef with him, not me. I was simply relaying what I saw, I'm just the messenger. Is this sufficient enough for you to understand the basis of my original posting? Did I have to write all of this bullshit to begin with so you'd understand what I meant? I didn't think it was necessary, nor did I have the time to do so when I made the original post. I just expected people to have a pleasant conversation about what they read. I didn't expect to defend my clear observation because you didn't understand what I said. Who cares what you "think" I said, you are not the intended audience and you also aren't involved at all in what I said. You don't make Zeiss lenses, you don't make Rokinon lenses, you don't make Optar lenses. I'm not hurting or damaging YOU or your reputation at all. Why do you give two shits what I say? How is what I said DAMAGING to anyone? I'm just a filmmaker making movies, having fun and trying to share my experiences with other people. Again, all I did was make an observation that was very basic and so unworthy of all this text and explanation.

My intention wasn't to make a detailed posting at the time, it was to simply relay my thoughts, nothing more, nothing less. Again, thoughts and opinion's don't need to be accurate in any way shape or form. Where I do agree society today places less value on knowledge then in previous generations, I don't necessarily agree that random people's opinions hold less value. Having worked with some top experts in dozens of different fields, I have always found myself helping them resolve issues, using methods they've never thought of before. In fact, an outside view is actually very important and it's why many experts surround themselves with younger, less experienced people. Not just to train them, but to also get their feedback for themselves to absorb. It's why so many "experts" have stolen ideas from their protege. The democratic "free for all" actually brings a lot of balance. HA! I'm one person on one internet forum. You give me too much credit sir. Read above... Well, I learn every time someone corrects me. It's actually a great way to learn because you're told exactly the information your missing, instead of searching in vain for something you don't even know you don't know.

Because those people haven't spent every moment on this forum, tracking down posts I make and nit picking them apart like you have. I also don't understand how anyone can disagree with the original content of this thread. Not only did I delete it, but the tiny blurb that was quoted, has nothing "wrong" about it. Again, it's based on personal experience. Again, if I put a lens on my camera and it doesn't do what I expect it to do and another lens does... well, even if the spec says otherwise, it doesn't matter does it? The lens didn't live up to my expectations and I'm going to comment about it, no matter what the spec sheet says. I mean isn't the whole point of this forum to post opinions and ideas, so people can comment and correct? I have no problem with people correcting what I say (or anyone else for that matter), if they do so without being rude and abrasive. If everyone took this approach, the forum would be void of any real discussion. The only reason why we have discussions is because the forum is FULL of people who don't know the subject. I'll say this much, if unchecked, "experts" will keep doing the same thing they've always done, for better or worse. It takes the outside thinking mentality of a non-expert to truly bring balance. Also, I know what I'm doing, just because I'm sometimes incorrect on technical details, doesn't change my abilities to get the job done. It means a lot if you learned something.

Gregg, I'm a professional filmmaker. I make money through the work I do. To say I post voluminous worth if misinformation, is just false. I post based on my experiences, based on what I've physically done with my own hands. Whether they fit in line with the rest of the world or not, it's NOT your place to judge. Yes, I come off as authoritative, but that's only because I don't have the time to beat around the bush. You may have hours to think about a post, do research and stuff, but generally I'm making posts at lunch break on set or between renders during post production. So when I say something that's odd, it's probably because I forgot something and 99.95% of the visitors on this forum, just overlook it. They realize, hey this guy clearly knows something and sure, he got one or two pieces wrong, but that's ok. People come on and make corrections without bitching and moaning all the time. Most people are happier then pig in punch to have someone like me on here. In fact, this thread alone inundated my inbox with people begging me to stay and re-post what this thread was originally about. See, what I bring to the table is my own experiences. Not some thought-out, overly clever analysis that nobody will read, but a straight-forward experience. Does it need to be right? No... the specs say X and my experience is Y... the question (no pun intended) is WHY is my experience not the spec? You can argue with me all day long about it, but the experience doesn't change. I'm sorry if you think I'm purposely singling you out. JD takes those honors, I was done with this, but JD had a point that I agree with. Next time I make a post about something, just remember when you visit the thread to comment, leniency is always the best way to react. There is no reason to throw a hissy fit, like you do 9 times out of 10. It DOES make you look like a troll, no matter which definition you choose to agree with or not. I have zero problems with anyone, I'm the nicest friggen' guy you'll ever meet and I'm a busy guy. I have non-profit film school that puts cameras into the hands of students for little to nothing. I teach high school where I work with students on their personal projects as well, for again... nothing. I'm developing a charity designed to help kids with mental health and a youtube series to go around it. I shoot/edit/color pretty much full-time (freelancer) and I donate much of my spare time, helping dozens of other people. I'm a super busy guy and honestly, the little nit-picky bullshit I see on here, is just unnecessary.