Mike Crane

The cost difference to shoot super 8 vs. 16 is a close call. But, super 8 is still a bit cheaper. However 16 is more forgiving to shoot with a better ratio of good results. It also depends on your access to equipment. If you have a 16mm camera sitting in the closet then it might be good to take another look at 16. Look at the cost to purchase a good super 8 camera versus a reasonable 16 (such as a Canon Scoopic). Spectra also just recently added a variety of discounted 16mm film/processing/telecine packages as well (see their website). You can choose any fresh Kodak film you wish in any load size (100' or 400'). Lastly, you may want to consider the creative nature of the project you are shooting. Does film grain add to the cinematic experience you wish to convey? If so, super 8 is not as risky a choice. I would also consider shooting super 8 neg instead of reversal. This will greatly improve the ratio of usable shots and save on reshooting. With all that is available, you have some interesting choices. You may want to sharpen your pencil and add up the real difference in cost to see if 16 and its advantages are worth it to you.

Take care where you drop your film off for processing. Some labs have restrictions on content - especially nudity. The main lab I use that definitely has NO restrictions on content is Spectra Film and Video. They specifically state in their literature that they do not edit or restrict any film scenes that they process or transfer. All material is kept completely confidential as well. There should be other labs that also permit nudity. Just be sure you inquire before you drop off your film.

25fps frame rate applies to european standards (PAL). If in the US shooting NTSC, the easy (and cheap) way to get a monitor shot is to simply shoot and transfer at 18fps. This gives you a decent picture. Otherwise, for perfect results, you must shoot with a camera that has 30fps with phase control (to move the black bar out of the picture). Then transfer at 30fps.

I do not use Pro8 film any more. But, in case you decide you must, I understand that Spectra Film will process Pro8 film free of charge if you transfer it with them. Better customer service and quality make it an offer worth considering.

I second Alex! Pro8mm competes with Kodak by selling their own brand loaded with inferior Kodak short end stocks. Thats why you see each company selling the same film. Only problem for Pro8 is that Kodak sells "new" film at a lower price! But, apparently some people are still unaware. There are better places to go with that offer one stop shopping (film-processing-telecine) for the professionals now. And, we now have Kodak in the game. The new alternatives provide both better quality and price than Pro8! Try Spectra Film and Video or Yale Labs Do yourself a favor and stick with fresh Kodak product. Your results will be far better and more consistent. ;)

Elmo is a good name to go with. Try the ST180E. The variable speed will help you out (set to 20fps) with transfers to video for test purposes (in a pinch). The quality will not be great but it works!

Excellent advice from Santo. But, I would avoid Pro8mm like the plague (especially if you are a "new fish" in their store). They sell shoddy products and services at outrageous prices. Many bad reports have been written about them on the forums. And, I have personally had some bad experiences there as well. If you are interested in someplace good in the LA area, I would recommend Spectra Film and Video. They have done great work for me on all my jobs. If you are on a low budget tell them how much you have to spend and they will usually be able to work with you in some form. www.spectrafilmandvideo.com As Santo mentions, do not project or view the footage under any circumstances. The dirt will accumulate very fast (seen as white specks). Though you must pay to professionally transfer the negative, the film is far more forgiving and easier to adjust during the transfer. You will find that results are far more consistent, saving you money on film and processing while making your clients happier.

I too have heard horror stories about Pro8mm 16 and super 8 film/processing. Try Spectra Film and Video. I just bought a discounted 16mm package from them last week. Included was some very nice processing/transfer. The great thing for me was that their 16 packages are geared for 100 foot reels or 400' on a core. All the same price. The choice is up to you. Plus, they include new Kodak film of choice with their packages (instead of recans like Pro8). The 16 packages may not be listed on their web page. I think I had inquire.

Spectra Film and Video bought out some of the equipment from RGB. They plan to offer processing services for ECN-2 and E-6 still films in the next month or so. Here they are: Spectra Film and Video

I heard that turning down the chroma knob in post works quite well for a desaturated look. ;)

Pro8mm short ends also have issues if you do not know how old the film is. Would anyone feel comfortable shooting 5245 in super 8 that was produced in 1998, mixed with the same film produced in 2000, mixed with a few more rolls produced in 1996? Keep in mind, you just bought all this film together from Pro8mm yesterday! At least, in the world of 16 and 35mm short ends you have the option of checking emulsion and batch numbers on the can. Pro8mm includes nothing to tell us how old their film is, or the batch. They just continue to pretend that they sell new film. Not knowing if the film has gone way past the expiration is enough to greatly bother me. The additional likelihood of mixing old film together with a lottery of production dates really pushes it way beyond acceptability. Combining this with offering it at new film prices, not knowing how the original shortend was treated, under what conditions the film is treated by Pro8mm (if they skimp on the film itself there is no telling what else they are doing to save a buck - including their marginal processing) is really bad business. I think Pro8mm and their little cheats to increase their profit at the expense of filmmakers stink! I only use them as a last resort. And, if Kodak produced 50D in super 8 I would not use them at all. <_<

Their color correction system is low end compared to other places I've used. Do they offer transfers using the better Digital DaVinci Renaissance and Power Windows? What type of gate is used for their super 8? The worst is a converted 16mm gate (incorrect optics). A rank made super 8 gate would rate second best. The V3 gate would be the very best. Ranks themselves are not very expensive these days. It is their upgrades, the gear used with them and the colorist that makes the magic. This is where the big money is spent and why prices can vary (sometimes). Too bad it is so difficult to sort out those who truly over charge from the ones who really offer a great deal. Or, the ones who are operating with low end equipment from the ones who really put together a great system with a talented colorist. The price seems to be on par with the level of equipment Cinelab is using. Not fantastic, but, good for rough dailies. Unfortunately, I can not pay for the luxury of dailies in super 8. Cinelab is not the place for me, but, I'll keep them on file just in case. ;)

I still like the 200 Vision 2 made by Kodak. It is a great stock for my lit interiors. But, it has its limitations as a good exterior stock capable of consistently delivering low grain pictures. It just does not function as well as the 50D outside. I hate to say this, but I am forced to buy 50D from the other guys (who shall remain nameless). Their film and processing quality is marginal at best. But I really need the 50D to make some of my shoots work. I wish Kodak would produce the 50D so I could buy all my film from them and shoot film more often for my low budget projects.

Why not start with a Canon and move on from there as your needs grow. The Canon is vey reliable, user friendly and delivers great pictures. It is without doubt the best camera for first time use. The other cameras will require more money to purchase and maintain. Plus, they are not as easy to use the first time out. If I were you, I would just get the Canon and be done with it. ;)

Only $150.00 for 30 minutes of film on a rank? :blink: From the pricing I have gotten elsewhere that seems to be quite a bargain! And, the picture seems even better than costlier places I have used. How much extra did they charge you for tape and film prep (on top of 150.00). Do you have a link or phone number for Spectra?

Hi Chris, The transfer looks quite good. Much sharper than my K-40 shot with a Canon 814 done at other places (on the Rank). I am looking for a new place to get my work done (similar project size), but want to keep the price down. How expensive was the transfer for your entire film project (excluding additional fees like tape, etc...)?