A DP's Perspective of Red

[Häakon]

Hi Häakon,

 

I don't see a big issue with 90 seconds start up.

 

Stephen

Hi Stephen,

 

I never said it was an issue, just that it is much slower than other digital video cameras already on the market and that they hope to improve this "boot time" significantly through firmware updates. :-)

 

Häakon

[Max Jacoby]

Brian

 

You remind me of French film critics, they too always read more into a finished film than the director intented to put in there in the first place ;)

[Brian Dzyak]

Brian

 

You remind me of French film critics, they too always read more into a finished film than the director intented to put in there in the first place ;)

 

:) I've been looking for second career ideas.

 

I'm also a firm believer that people should say precisely what they mean. Word choice is very powerful particularly in the industry where collaboration is necessary.

[Max Jacoby]

I'm also a firm believer that people should say precisely what they mean.

I think that makes for very tedious films though.

[Brian Dzyak]

I think that makes for very tedious films though.

 

 

I guess you're right. The next time I need something from the rental house I'll just ask them to send me some stuff and we'll figure it out from there. :)

[Max Jacoby]

I was talking about the content of films, not the making of them.

[David Mullen ASC]

For the record, I started shooting 35mm in 1990 (and Brian Dyzak was one of my AC's on my first feature in 1992) and I have yet to thread a 35mm camera! Just have never needed to. I'm sure I could learn how to do it, but it's just never come up in 17 years. I certainly am aware of the differences in threading a Panaflex versus an Arri-BL versus an Arricam, but only just from watching.

 

I did thread my share of Eclair NPR mags and Arri-SR mags back in film school.

[Phil Rhodes]

I'm extremely cautious about any manager not knowing at least the basics of their subordinates' jobs. At the very least, it means that those in charge need to take careful notice of the lower level people's advice, and not succumb to the temptation to filter or ignore or assume that wolf is being cried if that advice becomes inconvenient.

 

Phil

[Brian Dzyak]

I was talking about the content of films, not the making of them.

 

I apologize because I know that this discussion is way off topic, but as to the above, what exactly is the difference? The content of a project is a direct result of the process that it takes to "make" one. For instance, while some DPs might choose to be very specific with the Gaffer concerning what units to use and where to put them, other DPs may be more generic merely asking for a "soft warm light coming through the window." In both cases, the job will eventually be completed, but the more the DP is personally aware of what it takes to get what he is after, the more efficiently that specific setup will be ready and the quicker the camera will roll. This efficient process then (hopefully) translates into having more time for more takes until everyone gets it right and/or more setups in one day.

 

Wandering through an expensive production day letting the spirit take creativity where it desires may or may not result in a "better" product, however in the motion picture industry, movies are an art and a product. An expensive one at that, so the more everyone knows what they need before they show up on set and the better they can effectively communicate it, the better for everyone.

 

In a strained attempt to link this post with the thread's topic :) , it is great that so many influential Directors are excited about the possibilities that something like RED can bring to their production. But it is ultimately the DP who has to know if and how that specific "box" will be suitable to create the necessary pictures for the story. And it is the responsibility and challenge for the ACs to figure out if and how that new "box" can be practically used (configurations, accessories, etc). Having someone as hands on as Mr. Jannard has been speaks well not only of the RED, but of the future improvements and possibilities as well. When the company itself is as interested in creating a usable product as the users are interested in having one, then hopefully, everyone can spend less time worrying about the technology and more time using it to tell interesting stories. :)

[David Mullen ASC]

Director Alexander Mackendrick, always the cynic, once said something to the effect that a director has to know enough about technology to know when the technicians were lying to him.

 

Anyway, any good DP learns enough about the work of the people below him to know how long things should take, or what can go wrong, etc. even if they are not the expert on that particular item. I know all the general things a Steadicam operator has to know about building and using the Steadicam rig in different modes, yet I couldn't do it myself because I'm only a generalist in that area. I watch how other crew people do things but without getting the chance to do it myself, there are limits to just how well I can learn what they are doing.

 

The truth is that there are generally technical experts to help a DP out if needed, but there is no substitute for the DP knowing how to create images that work emotionally and narratively -- your technical expertise has to be in service to a creative thought, so it's important for DP's to not get too in love with technology to the extent that they are not pushing themselves artistically anymore.

 

My fears and anxieties revolve around feelings of creative mediocrity and whether I can overcome my own limitations as an artist more than whether or not I'll be able to handle a RED or Viper camera when the chance appears. I can generally figure out how to handle a tool or workflow but that doesn't always mean I can always figure out how to create the right mood for a scene.

[John Sprung]

... and I could still do a complete mag change and rethread in under 30.

The one place it really got to be a pain was on sitcoms. You had four crews swapping mags at once, with the audience and cast waiting. Nobody wanted to be the slowest. Sometimes they'd get a little sloppy, pull a little out rather than straight down, and do some edge damage. That's when we'd have stuff break in the lab.

 

 

 

-- J.S.

[John Sprung]

The only time you have to switch it off in that situation is if you have to swap batteries.

If you can run on offboard batteries, it should be possible to run through a hot-swap box. I have one that I made years ago for a laptop and GPS project, but never tried it on a video camera.

 

 

 

 

-- J.S.

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Let's please curb the elitist attitude a bit and remember that just because someone is not shooting film it doesn't make them an "amateur." Scads of dramatic television shows (and let's be honest, even enough feature films now to warrant a mention) are being shot digitally. RED is a digital camera, not a film camera. How long does it take to replace the tape in an F-900 and resume shooting? I don't think you will last too long if it takes you 90 seconds.

 

 

Häakon I think you read him all wrong. I think what he was saying was exactly the opposite as you interpreted it. Aka only indies expect a 90 second down time every 4 hours to be a problem. Film shoots already expect those kinds of delays.

 

I was on a 35mm remax commercial shoot on friday and if the camera had gone off-line for 90 seconds I don't think anyone would have noticed.

Edited September 16, 2007 by Gavin Greenwalt

[Brian Drysdale]

Häakon I think you read him all wrong. I think what he was saying was exactly the opposite as you interpreted it. Aka only indies expect a 90 second down time every 4 hours to be a problem. Film shoots already expect those kinds of delays.

 

I was on a 35mm remax commercial shoot on friday and if the camera had gone off-line for 90 seconds I don't think anyone would have noticed.

 

90 seconds could cause problems on documentaries. However, for most other productions this wouldn't be noticed and could be scheduled around other on set activity.