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Michael Frymus

WTB Camera

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I am looking for a used camera in the $2000CAD/ $1900USD price range.

 

Much have at least:

1080P

24fps

3CCD

 

Options:

Removable lens

Shotgun microphone &/or holder

Shoulder mount built in

Edited by Michael Frymus

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Guest Trevor Swaim
SCRATCH THAT!

 

 

Looking for a CANON 7D

 

 

lol

So you're giving up real 1080, 3ccds, a decent mic input, and a shoulder mount?

Edited by Trevor Swaim

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lol

So you're giving up real 1080, 3ccds, a decent mic input, and a shoulder mount?

 

 

no, before I was looking for any camera, now I want a 7D. That's what I meant.

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Guest Trevor Swaim
no, before I was looking for any camera, now I want a 7D. That's what I meant.

 

 

I know and i was pointing out that the 7d has none of those things. I guess I was wondering why you were giving up all three of your "must haves" and two of your "options" to get only one of your "options".

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Guest Trevor Swaim
I know and i was pointing out that the 7d has none of those things. I guess I was wondering why you were giving up all three of your "must haves" and two of your "options" to get only one of your "options".

 

 

Sorry giving up 2 of your must haves and 2 of your options, to get 1 must have and 1 option. The Canon does do 24p.

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Trevor, not sure what you mean by real 1080p. It certainly does record 1920x1080 pixels and I'm fairly sure as far as anyone knows it reads an equal number of photosites. As for resolving power, it may be a bit lower than some HD cameras and higher than others.

 

3CCD is nice but has implications for lenses and there are no 3CCD 35mm-sized cameras, so its one or the other, and im fairly sure the 7D has more sensor area than any 3CCD's sensors combined and uses more total photosites than several popular Panasonic 3CCD HD cameras.

 

Audio inputs and shoulder mounts are very easy to add for a small price.

Removable lens mount cannot be added to fixed-lens cameras at any price.

 

I think the 7D is a good choice. Why not just buy it new? it still falls in your price range and they should hold value fairly well given demand from both video and still shooters. I got mine new with a 10% off coupon and bought the kit and sold the lens for a profit (kit costs $200 more than body, lens can be sold off for ~$300). At that price, youll probably pay less than a lot of people who paid retail would ask you to pay for their used camera, especially since the camera is so new. I could be wrong, though.

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Trevor, not sure what you mean by real 1080p. It certainly does record 1920x1080 pixels and I'm fairly sure as far as anyone knows it reads an equal number of photosites. As for resolving power, it may be a bit lower than some HD cameras and higher than others.

 

3CCD is nice but has implications for lenses and there are no 3CCD 35mm-sized cameras, so its one or the other, and im fairly sure the 7D has more sensor area than any 3CCD's sensors combined and uses more total photosites than several popular Panasonic 3CCD HD cameras.

 

Audio inputs and shoulder mounts are very easy to add for a small price.

Removable lens mount cannot be added to fixed-lens cameras at any price.

 

I think the 7D is a good choice. Why not just buy it new? it still falls in your price range and they should hold value fairly well given demand from both video and still shooters. I got mine new with a 10% off coupon and bought the kit and sold the lens for a profit (kit costs $200 more than body, lens can be sold off for ~$300). At that price, youll probably pay less than a lot of people who paid retail would ask you to pay for their used camera, especially since the camera is so new. I could be wrong, though.

 

 

I was just coming here to point that out.

But, the 7D does have 1080p, 24fps, a large sensor and has a 3CCD.

Dont know why you would say it doesnt.

 

Im trying to save the most I can. That's why Im looking for used... obviously. haha.

Im not looking at the kits, unless if its the 7D with primes. - well, one 50mm. I wont be able to afford much more.

Edited by Michael Frymus

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Guest Trevor Swaim
I was just coming here to point that out.

But, the 7D does have 1080p, 24fps, a large sensor and has a 3CCD.

Dont know why you would say it doesnt.

 

Im trying to save the most I can. That's why Im looking for used... obviously. haha.

Im not looking at the kits, unless if its the 7D with primes. - well, one 50mm. I wont be able to afford much more.

 

 

It doesn't have 3 ccds or even 1 it uses a CMOS chip. It does record a 1080p image but it can only resolve less than 600 lines of resolution. Its a little better resolution than a SD camera and it uses various digital manipulations to make it appear sharper. This digital manipulations are also what cause the extreme Moire and aliasing problems. Their are only 2 audio solutions one is to shoot 2 system sound which is what most people do, or to use an xlr adapter that forces off the nasty audio auto gain. It does this by playing a straight level tone into one of the 2 audio channels to trick the camera into thinking that that is the level to adjust to.

 

 

Before you purchase anything you really need to do some more research.

http://www.dvxuser.com/articles/article.php/26

 

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=192739

 

This is from the 5dMKII but the 7d has the exact same issues.

http://vimeo.com/7443352

http://vimeo.com/6546960

 

I'm saying that it is not a good camera, just that it has serious, known issues. I'm not trying to say that you shouldn't get it, just that you should really know what you are getting and what you aren't.

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You sound like every low-budget producer just 5min after hearing about the 5D or 7D. :P

 

 

Uh, yeah, I am on a fairly LOW budget here.

 

 

On the previous post, I meant to say CMOS, I must have read the previous post and just repeated it. As long as it has one or the other.

 

I'm not looking for the best equipment out there! It's not like my films are going to go out on the big screen. If I were to DO a film intended to, I would most likely NOT be using this equipment. Its just not good.

 

I have a low budget, and I want to stick with something that is good for me. If I could, Id even go with the RED Scarlet, but just the camera alone will run me more than a whole package of everything I'd need with the 7D.

 

Although, I am considering the 7D, I am still thinking about it... there are somethings that I do not like about it, but other things I do.

One thing that bugs me is that there is no audio - No XLR ports.

 

 

So, what would you say would be best to get then?

I need to stay at a low budget!! ...if your asking what is my budget? I don't know. Somewhere in the low thousands. With the 7D, it will run me approx. $5000 for everything I would need. Like shoulder mount rig, matte box, CF cards, prime lens..

That's a reasonable price range. I will not even have to buy half this stuff in order to shoot.

Edited by Michael Frymus

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Uh, yeah, I am on a fairly LOW budget here.

 

 

On the previous post, I meant to say CMOS, I must have read the previous post and just repeated it. As long as it has one or the other.

 

I'm not looking for the best equipment out there! It's not like my films are going to go out on the big screen. If I were to DO a film intended to, I would most likely NOT be using this equipment. Its just not good.

 

I have a low budget, and I want to stick with something that is good for me. If I could, Id even go with the RED Scarlet, but just the camera alone will run me more than a whole package of everything I'd need with the 7D.

 

Although, I am considering the 7D, I am still thinking about it... there are somethings that I do not like about it, but other things I do.

One thing that bugs me is that there is no audio - No XLR ports.

 

 

So, what would you say would be best to get then?

I need to stay at a low budget!! ...if your asking what is my budget? I don't know. Somewhere in the low thousands. With the 7D, it will run me approx. $5000 for everything I would need. Like shoulder mount rig, matte box, CF cards, prime lens..

That's a reasonable price range. I will not even have to buy half this stuff in order to shoot.

 

I would also go with the Scarlet - if only it existed.

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you're forgetting tripod/monitoring options for clients/audio/lighting/grip... the full cost of buying a "shooting solution" is well above your budget... not trying to discourage you, but if you really wanted to get a full set up of anything I'd save 'round 10,000... and yes, it's much better to SAVE than buy. You can rent any camera in existence pretty easily, when the need arises, and unless you have a client now who needs a certain type of work and will, shall we say, subsidize, the cost of a camera package, then you're getting in way over your head. And, if you want something just to learn on, well then forget about all the extra bits and bobs, or go used, lower end SD like a PD170.

Problem is you don't mention what you need this camera you're looking for to do, and in reality cameras fall into niches for what they do well and what they don't do well but can still accomplish. For example, I'd not want to run an IMAX camera to film my wedding (if 1- I had an IMAX Camera, and 2- my current, former, or any subsequent g/fs were ever crazy enough to marry me, and 2a- I asked). The 7D, for example, can work pretty well when doing stuff for-web, or going straight to a DVD that uses mostly short takes and audio isn't too big of an issue. It's not something you'd want to shoot a long interview with, though. And it's low profile makes it a lot easier to shoot incognito whereas something like an XDCamEX might get a few more looks etc.

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Who ever said this was for a client?

 

He was saying that UNLESS you have a client that is willing to subsidize the cost of your shooting kit, you had might as well rent for a low budget.

 

Having read the posts here -- though I've been absent from the board for several years -- I have to agree with the advice you're getting. It's not that the 7D isn't a great camera, it's that you have a WANT that you want to fulfill, and that is a dangerous thing to have when you are looking at dropping several thousand dollars on a camera.

 

It reminds me of my last teens early twenties (not too long ago, in fact) when I had my camera WANTS. So what did I do? I managed to get an XL1s -- the talk of the DV world when it came out -- only to find that by adopting a technology early (which is still what these SLRs with video are, an early product that is going to improve greatly) I completely skipped over better solutions, all because I wanted a removable lens (worthless since I didn't have the money to get the adaptors for better lenses).

 

Then, when it came to me WANTING a 16mm camera I jumped on eBay and bought the cheapest sync sound camera I could find -- a CP16R -- only to find its limitations of weight and difficulty to thread made it a burden that I only used a couple of times (I've recently purchased an Eclair ACL for a shoot because of the weight issue with the CP16R).

 

If *I* were going to buy an HD camera, I would go with an HVX200, honestly. It's a rugged little machine that has been on the market for a while, has tapeless recording, and people LOVE it. Of course, it is out of your price range if you only want to spend $2000. But for a few thousand dollars more you are going to have a far better VIDEO camera than the 7D.

 

That's the other thing, video is added onto these DSLRs; it is not their main focus, it is a bonus, but people suddenly feel as though this is what they were made for. It is not; they are made for photography, and while there may be some photojournalists who would actually use and desire this video mode on the camera, it's still a camera being marketed to still photographers. But since it's the NEW thing, everyone wants to be the one shooting on it.

 

Save your money; wait a while. Find a camera rental house and learn about the process of renting equipment -- if you are looking at being a filmmaker of any stripe this is something you're going to need to be comfortable with and the process can often be intimidating if you're not used to it.

 

But a good piece of advice, always, is don't be on the bleeding edge. You cannot foresee the problems and downsides of something so new.

 

And PS: I officially hate Canon in terms of the proprietary nature of their cameras/lenses. Even if you DID buy the 7D, take it from me who has owned a Canon video camera and a professional Canon still camera, you will hate yourself for buying a camera that requires Canon autofocus lenses or else costly adapters to make other lenses work. Went I went to a DSLR I went Nikon because I knew there were 50 years of lenses that were compatible with the mount.

 

-Josh

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Guest Trevor Swaim

I you are buying this camera as an educational tool, just something to learn on, and don't need an HD image then you should get a DVX100 or a PD150/PD170.

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I you are buying this camera as an educational tool, just something to learn on, and don't need an HD image then you should get a DVX100 or a PD150/PD170.

 

It is more for educational purposes, but I still don't want to be using the 'older' technology. Everything I have is the latest technology. With the world moving fast, and not having HD, is not, what I'd prefer. I want to stay on top of things. There is no way I am going to downgrade.

 

Well, what about a used Canon XH-A1. - what would you think about that then, over the 7D?

I can get that for a bit more. Which is not so great as I wont be able to get the shoulder mount rig, or follow focus, etc. Also, I would prefer to have a larger sensor, but its not a necessity. - If I would need one, I would have to purchase a 35mm adapter, which I believe is like $4,000. But, having a big one would be nice. That's why I like the 7D.

Edited by Michael Frymus

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Guest Trevor Swaim
It is more for educational purposes, but I still don't want to be using the 'older' technology. Everything I have is the latest technology. With the world moving fast, and not having HD, is not, what I'd prefer. I want to stay on top of things. There is no way I am going to downgrade.

 

Well, what about a used Canon XH-A1. - what would you think about that then, over the 7D?

I can get that for a bit more. Which is not so great as I wont be able to get the shoulder mount rig, or follow focus, etc. Also, I would prefer to have a larger sensor, but its not a necessity. - If I would need one, I would have to purchase a 35mm adapter, which I believe is like $4,000. But, having a big one would be nice. That's why I like the 7D.

 

 

The DVX100 is still good enough for the television show "Its always sunny in Philadelphia". Every episode of that show is still shot 100% on the DVX and then upressed in post. You are falling prey to something that almost all new young filmmakers fall prey to. Filmmaking is not about having the latest and greatest tools, it is about knowing how to use the tools that you do have to their fullest extent. Don't get me wrong having all the toys is fun and in some cases it can make the end product better, but the basics of filmmaking, especially cinematography, are quite simple really. Composition, movement, and lighting, thats it really. None of those things are dependent on having the latest camera.

 

IMO you would be far better served as a filmmaker if you were to purchase a solid simple camera like the DVX to learn on, and spend the lions share of your money on a first rate solid lighting kit, like an Arri Fresnel set. here is how i would spend your 5k.

 

Used DVX100 - $1000

Arri fresnel 4 light set (2 300watt and 2 650watt +all accessories - $2500

Cartoni focus tripod and head $1500

 

The Tripod and lights will serve you for years and years and will hold their value quite well if you ever decide to sell them.

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HD isn't really important if you're trying to learn how to use a camera. all pro cameras, SD or HD, will have iris, exposure, gain, zebras, audio etc. And if anything the "lower" quality and the fact that you have to work harder on occasion to make things look good will be beneficial to learning. I have a lot harder time lighting for video than I do film primarily because I have to be more mindeful of the limitations of the tech and working within that. and that, working within limitations, is a vital skill for a filmmaker.

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I have to say it, because I know somebody will, but:

 

The whole idea about technology moving so fast: invest in film. It's been around for a hundred years and it is still going strong. (And then you can have whatever resolution your heart desires.)

 

:D

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I have to say it, because I know somebody will, but:

 

The whole idea about technology moving so fast: invest in film. It's been around for a hundred years and it is still going strong. (And then you can have whatever resolution your heart desires.)

 

Uhh... no.

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Lets go back on topic.

 

I'm looking for a camera.

Since no camera in this price range does 'true' 1080p.

I will just have to settle with the best I can.

 

I am going for the Canon XH-A1

 

If you have one, please let me know.

 

$2000/CAD ~ $1900/USD or less.

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