John Shell Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 I remember reading somewhere several years back about how the CRT film recorders IMAX uses are limited to 4K because of the spot size and I’m just wondering, is it still the case today ?? And why can’t they use laser recorders for higher resolution ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Phillips Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 IIRC Hoyte van Hoytema has said they've output around 6k to imax film before for digital composites. Im not sure who their vendor was, but I'd imagine its fotokem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Tyler Purcell Posted February 25 Premium Member Share Posted February 25 The CRT recorders can do upwards of 8k onto 15p. The problem is the length of time it takes to record each frame is exponentially more when you do 8k vs 4k. So most of the time, they just record out 4k. I don't remember how many recorders IMAX has, but it's quite a few. The problem is; once the CRT tubes are all used up, that's the end of that. There is currently no replacement for recording high res images to large format which even gets close to competing with the CRT models. They've tried new tubes, but they don't work as well. It's a real problem in the recording world honestly. I'm hoping the density of OLED gets better over time and switching over to an OLED solution would work well. Right now the only alternatives are LCD and they just don't have the dynamic range of the CRT's OR OLED displays. One more thing to note, very few films are "finished' in 8k anyway. So even if you COULD do an 8k record, who is actually doing the entire finishing process in 8k? Maybe Nolan? But anyone else? Doubtful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Sponsor Robert Houllahan Posted February 26 Site Sponsor Share Posted February 26 You could / they may just record the part of the element you need on the stock and then print the rest, would require a traveling matte or some such rig in printing on an optical printer. Instead of just recording the whole frame. FotoKem would be the only lab with Celco Fury 65/15P recorders I would think. Some of the new micro-oled panels look promising maybe with a piezo stage and multi level exposure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Tyler Purcell Posted February 26 Premium Member Share Posted February 26 (edited) 13 hours ago, Robert Houllahan said: FotoKem would be the only lab with Celco Fury 65/15P recorders I would think. IMAX themselves does the 15P recording actually. They have a fleet of Celco's. I'm not sure if Fotokem even screws with the 15P format recording unless it's just VFX shots going to negative. I think their CRT tube collection is fading fast and they really don't want to use them. Edited February 26 by Tyler Purcell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Sponsor Robert Houllahan Posted February 26 Site Sponsor Share Posted February 26 3 hours ago, Tyler Purcell said: IMAX themselves does the 15P recording actually. They have a fleet of Celco's. I'm not sure if Fotokem even screws with the 15P format recording unless it's just VFX shots going to negative. I think their CRT tube collection is fading fast and they really don't want to use them. Yeah them CRTs got to be looking pretty crisped by now. Kind of difficult to keep them and even the Arrilaser machines running. Sony just came out with a new 4K x 3.5K Micro OLED I am trying to get my hands one one when they release them, of course they want to know how much volume you will be selling and that is not allot... There is a French company that also does Micro OLEDs so maybe one of these panels with a piezo shift or the JVC LcOS with Piezo shift for 8k recording... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Tyler Purcell Posted February 28 Premium Member Share Posted February 28 On 2/26/2024 at 2:45 PM, Robert Houllahan said: Yeah them CRTs got to be looking pretty crisped by now. Yep, I can't even imagine. On 2/26/2024 at 2:45 PM, Robert Houllahan said: Kind of difficult to keep them and even the Arrilaser machines running. I can't imagine. We tried to make one work, totally failed. I'm beyond belief how bad they are designed. On 2/26/2024 at 2:45 PM, Robert Houllahan said: Sony just came out with a new 4K x 3.5K Micro OLED I am trying to get my hands one one when they release them, of course they want to know how much volume you will be selling and that is not allot... Good to know! Let me know when you know more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Sponsor Robert Houllahan Posted February 28 Site Sponsor Share Posted February 28 I would not say the Arrilaser is a bad design it is just the best tech and the parts available in the late 1990's They do work and make excellent recordings even with Windows NT and odd parts. The scanners end up having bearing issues and then if they don't start they are hard to (or impossible to??) fix. I have two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geffen Avraham Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 (edited) On 2/27/2024 at 10:42 PM, Robert Houllahan said: I would not say the Arrilaser is a bad design it is just the best tech and the parts available in the late 1990's They do work and make excellent recordings even with Windows NT and odd parts. The scanners end up having bearing issues and then if they don't start they are hard to (or impossible to??) fix. I have two. Man I wish Blackmagic would make a Cintel with a new imager, and perhaps an RGB illuminator and monochrome sensor. No other professional scanner is plug-and-play like that, getting an imager capable of 4k S16 scans would make it perfect for my use. Edited March 1 by Geffen Avraham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Site Sponsor Robert Houllahan Posted March 1 Site Sponsor Share Posted March 1 10 hours ago, Geffen Avraham said: Man I wish Blackmagic would make a Cintel with a new imager, and perhaps an RGB illuminator and monochrome sensor. No other professional scanner is plug-and-play like that, getting an imager capable of 4k S16 scans would make it perfect for my use. Well this has nothing to do with digital recording to film. As for "plug and play" the BMD Cintel is very sub par, the LaserGraphics Scan Station beats it in every possible way. Blackmagic seems to have no intention to replace the noisy sensor in the BMD Cintel and absolutely definitely will never make that thing a RGB scanner. If you want true RGB HDR scans be prepared to pay Arri / DFT / LaserGraphics a half a million or more. You could have a Oxberry pin registered Xena for about $55K with a new 6.5K sensor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geffen Avraham Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 Not directly related to film recorders, but the talk of those big high-maintenance machines reminded me of the Spirit DataCines being sold for $9,000 these days, and how this forum was dissuading people from getting them. Hence my mind drifting to more convenient machines like Cintels. What's the workflow like with a ScanStation? I've never used one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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