cine lifestyle

[Morgan Peline]

So in your own mind what you're saying to yourself, is you actually don't even want to try.

 

Another family saying is 'Your mind can be your best friend or your worst enemy'

 

You have effectively become your own worst enemy, doomed to forcing yourself to never fulfill your own potential. (This is starting to sound like a motivational CD...)

 

Sorry, to get philosophical again, but if you are a bit eastern in your way of thinking, another point is :- It's actually not the result or 'success' which counts or matters in the end, it's how you go about your day to day life to try to get there - that's more important. Everybody dies in the end, who cares if you succeed or fail...Who apart from yourself, whether you get to be an oscar winning DP or not? What counts is whether that day when you are on your death bed and just about to go, you are happy with the way you led your life and what you achieved for yourself. Regret is a very sad thing.

[Wendell_Greene]

< Hard work, perseverance, dedication to learning your craft and yes, making the right contacts will all pay off one day soon.>

 

I hope you'll excuse me, but that's pretty trite. In most cases it won't pay off, the world is not necessarily - or even often - fair, hard work is not always - or even often - rewarded. Life's a shitty place - failure is more frequent than success, and this is true in virtually all fields. I'm not [being]saying anything new here.

 

 

Call it what you want. I only know that despite some really tough economic times that are part of the quotidian battles I face in trying to pursue a career as a cinematographer, that I have complete and undying faith that my words will have fulfillment in regards to myself.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

I'm not saying that anybody shouldn't try. I'm saying people should be forewarned to try in the knowledge that failure is almost inevitable. In this knowledge, avoid being financially screwed by the experience and at least be forewarned of the sizeable life-altering problems that this sort of work tends to cause, such as very late entry into the property and pension markets. These are not small issues and people should know that it is catastrophically unlikely that a career in filmmaking will allow them to go smoothly.

 

As for the mystic philosophy, that's very interesting, but at some point one does have to pay the rent. Of course, the people who get listened to in this sort of debate are the senior people who ironically only get to be senior by having the fantastic good luck to succeed, and who are probably least well placed to realise how fortunate they are. Human beings are very good at interpreting whatever the current situation is, as the universal status quo, no matter how unusual their situation is. Thus the cycle of "anybody can make it" continues when it is unquestionably the case that not everybody can - in fact only a very tiny minority of people will, despite how it seems to those at the top.

 

Phil

[David Mullen ASC]

While there is some truth to that Phil, the other side of the argument is that most of the people who fail are the one's that quit. Of course, you could say that they quit because they had failed, but some actually simply did not succeed FAST enough for themselves. I spent a decade making an income as a DP that most people would judge as being so low that I would hardly qualify as having a career at all, more like a hobby.

 

People make the mistake of not planning for the long haul, so they go into debt or have an expensive enough lifestyle that at some point, they MUST get a job that pays better. Or, conversely, they don't push themselves hard enough to learn all that they can and to work as often as they can, even for almost no money.

 

I mean, one could say that in ANY prominant career positions, more people fail than succeed at it -- after all, there can only be so many CEO's, so many senators, etc. But the average person CAN usually find some sort of niche in the business area that interests them if they hang on long enough. Sure, there's luck involved too. But some of that luck you tend to make for yourself, or at least, you prepare yourself well-enough to take advantage of that luck.

 

Of course, I have occasionally met people who weren't well-suited tempermentally for the career they were seeking. I've met some AC's or gaffers who wanted to be DP's -- and did DP occasionally -- but did not have the right skill sets, at least not yet. A few had such poor people skills (inability to collaborate with directors) combined with an underdeveloped visual sense (i.e. no taste) that you had to wonder if they should be pursuing a DP career.

 

And some people have the misfortune to be in a country that only really employs a couple of DP's total year-round so opportunities to advance are limited.

 

One thing I learned a long time ago is that everyone in this business has a different story as to how they got where they are today, which is both comforting and disappointing simultaneously in that we ALL have to forge our own paths. Students ask me how I got to be a DP but I wonder how relevent my story is since no one else will end up following the same path.

[J. Lamar King IMPOSTOR]

Phil, I just can't believe your situation is that dire. I would think someone would hire you for your intelligence alone. Don't you guys have any kind of indie scene over there? What about documentaries? Anything that could lead to some good work. When I say good work, I don't neccesarily mean good paying but rather it has the potential to show your work at its best. If you shoot enough documentaries/indie shorts/music vids you will eventually come accross something that has a sort of locomotion. You know, everything comes together and lifts the work a step above ordinary. IMO that is the point of this business, to do great work. Even if it doesn't make you a superstar, if the work is great it becomes timeless, becomes worth the struggle.

 

I talked to Ken Burns last year and he related stories to me about when he started and the gist of what he said was, you have to accept the fact that you are going to be poor. He did everything he could to not have expenses like buying a run-down farm house and driving clunkers. I took that advice, moved to the low rent side of town bought a $700 Honda and couldn't be happier. It has allowed me to invest more in myself and I'm shooting more than ever. I'm not affraid of looking at no paying jobs because I can usually talk people into coming up with a little to pay me and it's all I need. Point is, I'm shooting, getting paid, building a reel and it has led to a music video job with a major label recording artist this past July. But I'm still a long way from saying I've "made it." I'm just moving up any way I can.

[Adam Frisch FSF]

Well, Phil. I do think they have a point. I get beaten over the head and lose jobs every week.

Just yesterday a good director friend telephoned and said that his producer wanted her exhusband (a DP) to shoot it, nothing he could do. And this was a job that was as close to certain as humanly possible. You just never know. It goes on and on - you're up for a million jobs but not one goes through. Then, when you have a job - 13 people want to employ you the same day.

 

How about this one: I was home in Sweden in july for a bit of vacation and seeing mum and my sister. Panic, I get calls from London about jobs all the time - a million pencils. I cut my vacation short to get back here so I can do them. Not one goes through in the end.

 

It's easy to get down and feel depressed. Especially when family keeps asking you when you're going to make a decent living and so on. It's hell having to deal with rejection on a daily basis, but, if I wasn't so passionate about what I do I'd never have lasted this long.

 

Today, rejection makes me stronger. I know, it sounds like a cliche, but it's true. Everytime I lose a job I tell myself that's their loss "and one day you'll come back begging me to shoot your poop". Never underestimate the power of revenge as a motivational tool:-)

 

I KNOW that in the end, in the long run, I will make a good career out of this, because I have

the passion for it. And with passion comes everything else.

 

Ask yourself Phil, do you really want to DP? 'Cause when we met it seemed like you enjoyed the field your currently dabbling in. And that's a creative, good line of work. I think that would be my second choice in the film business, actually.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

I wasn't particularly talking about my situation, but since you ask...

 

> Don't you guys have any kind of indie scene over there?

 

No. Well, yes, but at nothing like the level you do. There's almost nothing here between the level of a PD-150 in your mate's flat, and the next Bond movie.

 

> When I say good work, I don't neccesarily mean good paying but rather it has

> the potential to show your work at its best

 

That's how I've always defined good work, yes. This is the problem with the "indie" scene. It's crap. There's no opportunity to shine. Everyone does jobs they know they're never going to demo reel, but in the last eighteen months in which I was doing freebies for people I did over a dozen little shorts, three, four day shoots, and not a single one of them was worth showing anyone. I made a conscious decision not to do these bottom-end freebies any more - not only was I not making a living, but I wasn't even making a demo reel.

 

This notwithstanding, I'm more than eager to do any reasonably-decent independent production if they fulfill a few requirements - such as not a consumer handycam (and willingness to pay me at least a notional fee if they want my gear), a decent production designer, and a supervised grade. Arbitrary as it sounds, this does at least cut out the handycam-in-your-mate's-flat productions. Anything shooting hi-def is a shoo-in. I love doing music videos but I haven't had one this year. I'd happily do anything like this at the moment and I'm pleased to let the record show it. However, on this basis I haven't shot anything vaguely creative in over two months and I don't expect to, simply because the field is so empty. This doesn't particularly depress me, I'm used to it, but I know it isn't very future-building.

 

As for the whole cheap-side-of-town thing, well, I made the conscious decision to continue living outside London, but unless I go up north somewhere the cost of living in the UK will always be stupendously high, at least several times that in the US.

 

Phil

[Brad Grimmett]

Phil,

What I find strange about your posts on this subject is that the things you say don't seem to be completely true for yourself. You, in fact, are making a living in this business, no? So for you to talk about how impossible it is, and how you live in the wrong country and all that stuff just seems untrue. You're doing what you say can't be done. I understand that you're not always working on the jobs you WISH you were working on....but who isn't? Sometimes you just have to remind yourself that you should be happy to be earning a living in the profession you've chosen, and be happy that sometimes you get to work on those great projects as well. I try to remind myself of that fact when I find myself wishing that I was working on bigger, better, more creative, or better paying jobs. As long as I'm still working in this business I have the potential to work on more of those jobs in the future. It may take a while, but it can happen.

There are probably a lot of people who look at your career and say, "Wow, I wish I could be doing what Phil's doing, and making a living at it."

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

> You, in fact, are making a living in this business, no?

 

Nothing a steadicam operator would call a living, I'm sure! To deflect this Phil-centricness which seems to have sprung up - I once worked with a superbly talented AC, massively underused on a DSR-500 shoot, which was depressing. She had worked any number of high-end music promos and TVCs, she'd done Arri, Panavision, hi-def, the works - and yet in a very frank discussion about wages we discovered that neither of us was doing any better than a friend of mine who works a near-bottom-level job for a retail chain notorious for their low wages. It's absolutely preposterous.

 

> always working on the jobs you WISH you were working on

 

The difference here is that if you have to work a "crappy" job, it's probably an ad for a local restaurant or something which goes out on channel 190 at three in the morning, for which you probably make a rate which at least allows you to pay for your rig. If I have to work a crappy job, I'm shooting someone's birthday party (although they can actually be quite profitable, stupidly enough). The whole spectrum of quality is just shifted downwards. The best stuff you can ever hope to work on is world-class feature films. The best I'll ever do is some sattelite TV channel.

 

> "Wow, I wish I could be doing what Phil's doing, and making a living at it."

 

And the 2004 award for Most Hilarious Comment goes to... Brad Grimmett!

 

Phil

[Brad Grimmett]

And the 2004 award for Most Hilarious Comment goes to... Brad Grimmett!

 

Phil

Wow! I won! I'd like to thank my lawyer and my mother and my second cousin and my baby's mama......

Phil, I know you are predisposed to think that ALL steadicam operators make loads and loads of money, and in some cases I guess it's true, but, unfortunately it's not true for me, and it's certainly not true for probably 80% of the operators out there. I'm offered low rates all the time. People want to pay less for me and my equipment than they would pay a camera operator with no equipment. It's ludicrous, and I often turn those jobs down, but sometimes I'm not in a position to turn down a job and I have to take their low-ball offer (I do have to eat and pay the bills). It's become quite apparent that there are SO many steadicam operators now that there is always someone who will work for less just to get a job. There is fierce undercutting going on right now in the steadicam world, which is a bummer, but it's a fact of life. That's when I have to remind myself that I enjoy my work and I chose this profession for a reason. I'll keep plugging away and doing the best work I can, and maybe someday I won't have to worry about how I'm going to pay the rent, or pay for new pieces of equipment that I need. I think that's a healthy attitude to have, and the people that don't have that attitude are probably the ones that will fail.

Whether you choose to believe it or not, there are people out there who wish they were doing what you are doing, Phil. You should be happy to be working in a field that you enjoy. And if you don't enjoy it you should go do something else that will make you happy.

My previous post was not meant to be an attack on you Phil, it was only meant to (hopefully) help remind you that you don't have it that bad.

[Marty Hamrick]

A fascinating post!I wasn't going to comment on it until I had read where it was going before adding my 2 cents.

As for romantic/family relations and career.It can be done,I've done both ends of the spectrum.My ex wife was jealous of the fact that I had a career I was passionate about in spite of the fact that I never considered myself one who "made it".Over the years I've redefined that term many times,although I never have lost sight of my goals.

A bad relationship can and will drag one down in both aspects of the situation.Your professional life will suffer because you will be trying to please the other person and your career.There aren't enough hours in the day for that.I've learned the hard way that Superman exists only in cinema and comics.

To make it work,your spouse/significant other must have their own passions and will therefore understand why you are passionate about yours.However,I'm a little reluctant to suggest to anyone who is in any "artsy" field to date another artist.I lived with a musician for awhile and that was an experience I could write a book about.For short periods it was great,but we in the arts can be a temperamental lot and when you mix the two passionate personalities,it can breed some rather high emotions on both ends of the spectrum.I, too am also a musician,but yet after that experience I never went out with another performer of any kind.I don't think it was a conscious decision.It just happened that way.

My current fiance is in the banking/financial field.About as far as you get from film or performing arts,but it has a level of creativity all its own.

While she is not happy with the hours I work or some of the assignments I get,(Sunday I'm going to Tampa for Hurricane Ivan after I was called in from vacation for Charley and just spent a full week with Frances which left our house without power for 5 days),she understands them.

Relationships can be tough in our business,but like the career military person,firefighter,police officer,physician or any other professional with a demanding career it takes as much work and dedication to be a success in the relationship as it does the career.

[Guest Jackson Blake]

Isn't there a saying that you can choose 3 things in life and succeed at them? So you could be a director, be a cinematographer, and have a marriage. Or be a cinematographer, have a marriage and have kids.

I guess there are certainly exceptions and you could do 20 things in life if you identify with Einstein but I heard this a while back on an NPR interview or somewhere like that. It's kind of funny to quantify these kinds of things over your life span but I heard this as some sort of proven philosophy.

Edited November 24, 2011 by Jackson Blake

[Guest]

I talked to Ken Burns last year and he related stories to me about when he started and the gist of what he said was, you have to accept the fact that you are going to be poor.

 

If you take this philosophy then isn't that exactly what you'll be......poor?

 

Maybe the trick is to aspire to be wealthy.

 

There is an old North American Indian saying, "men become what they dream."

 

I doubt many successful people in any field just stumbled upon their success by aspiring to be poor. I would bet that the vast majority aspired to be the top of their field, so they worked and made decisions that lead to that goal.

 

I know in my case, I haven't decided to accept the fact that I should be poor. Most people are surprised to see where I live. You work in film and you live here? They say. Plus I have a wife and two kids, and my wife hasn't gone back to her day job in seven years.

 

Of course we don't have to worry about health insurance here, that is a major plus.

 

On another note.....I highly doubt Ken Burns is "poor" anymore.

 

R,

[Guest]

Oh I should also add....while this thread is talking primarily about becoming a DOP and the constant rejection that goes along with it, try being a producer!!!

 

Holy cow, imagine spending 2-3 YEARS of your life trying to get one project financed and seeing it go no where!

 

This past year I have had the door slammed in my face so many times I have lost track.

 

At least being a DOP you get a quick no or yes on your next job and you either work, or go back to job hunting. A DOP may be on set 5-9 times during the same period a producer/director is trying to get ONE project done.

 

Each movie is a full year commitment for me, once I pull the finance together. And who knows how long that can take?

 

R,

[Guest Jackson Blake]

There is an old North American Indian saying, "men become what they dream."

 

That is a great saying.

I've heard this through 'the secret', and a whole slew of other viewpoints, modalities and cultures but I didn't know the North American Indians said it.

[Phil Rhodes]

What is this, thread necromancy?

 

On re-reading my comments in this thread, with the advantage of nearly seven years' more experience, I can only say two things:

 

- I was right, and

- It's now much, much worse than it was back then.

 

Life is a putrefying lump of despicable slime, isn't it?

[Guest]

Life is a putrefying lump of despicable slime, isn't it?

 

I really wish you'd start a new career as a motivational speaker. Either that, or I can write a movie based on your character, which do you prefer? :D

 

R,

[K Borowski]

I agree. . . I'd pay money to see Phil make an audience cry. :D