The Departed

[Arni Heimir]

It's too bad you're not American, then, becuase you have a Champion(s) in the current bunch running this country. They don't care to see the 'more important' entities be rationed either. Why, the defense budget of the United States is just barely more than the defense budgets of all the rest of the countries in the world combined. Can you imagine if some bunch of narcissist fairies engaged in "The Arts" were to start syphoning off some of that? Where would we be then?

 

Hell, Sweden subsidized Ingmar Bergman and look what that got them. They also heavily subsidize the health of their citizens but their defense budget is candy-assed. Here in America we like to see that people with real money can get the best medical attention money can buy. Subsidy- schmubsidy.

 

The healthcare system in nordic countires is nothing to rave about. It is my understanding that waiting lists for operations don't exist in the states. Not in the same extend as in Scandinavia. If you need an operation and there is no medical reason to postpone, the operation is carried out immediately.

 

Why can't we accept that healthcare is a service. Not a fundamental right. My GP told me a while ago, that human beings weren't supposed to live more than forty years. We should all be so lucky to live past that mark at least.

 

Yes, healthcare in the United States is expensive if one's employer doesn't pick up the tab. It puts those who don't have it in a state of limbo. But in all fairness, if people were dying on the streets, why are vast numbers of people immigrating to America legally and illegally from countries with socialized healthcare?

 

I too find the defense budget of the US alarmingly high. But that is a discussion that shouldn't be under the "Departed" thread.

 

I really, really hate this response. Only famous mainstream filmmakers are allowed to have negative opinions? Are you so sparse in basis of defense for this film that you've got to rehash the same tired response?

 

Apart from Taxi Driver, of which I am a huge fan, I can't say I really dig Scorcese, though I am looking forward to this one because my brother called me as soon as he got out of the theatre and was saying "Dude! Man! Wow!" and other miscelaneous praises.

 

Hi David, I made a immature mistake and apologized for it. I hope that you and Max read that post. I wish more people in this forum would find it in themselves to apologize when they've gotten out of line.

[Tim Tyler]

Freddi, Arni,

 

There is nothing in Max's original post that justifies your combative replies. Max thought The Departed was disappointing, and he posted his opinion in the proper forum. If you've seen the film and you disagree then post your thoughts on the movie, not your character judgement of Max. This forum will not tolerate personal attacks like that.

 

I mostly liked the film. I liked the shadowed-Jack gimmick at the beginning, and I liked that a lot of the violence was shot with a static camera... something probably hard for Ballhaus to do since he enjoys moving so much.

 

I was distracted more by the celebrity cast than anything. They're all great actors with roots in New England area and pretty accurate accents, but they're also too familiar looking to me. I wish they'd have cast some lesser known actors.

[freddie bonfanti]

tim,

 

sorry but i will not apologize for what i said. people are getting this the wrong way. I AM NOT ATTACKING MAX BECAUSE HE CRITICISED A MOVIE, i am doing so because he did it in a very insulting and arrogant way, which i thought was very inappropriate. do you really think someone like max jacobi can get away with insulting a whole film crew like that? if mr jacobi is a director (even if imbd shows he is mainly a clapper loader) then he should know that making a film takes a lot of effort. if someone did not like the film thats fine, ill never complain, but doing it in such an arrogant way its intollerable.

 

sorry, i cant stand smartarses

[Bill DiPietra]

What has this forum de-evolved to? How about sticking to the initial topic/argument that the member makes instead of constantly choosing infighting over intelligent discussion.

 

I personally have not seen "The Departed" but the trailers do not impress me. And I AM a Scorsese aficionado. His last "great" film was "GoodFellas." After that, it was probably "The Age of Innocence." His aesthetic has been going downhill every since, in my opinion. Scorsese does not seem to be as daring as he once was. That passionate flare that was ever-present in all of his films leading up to "GoodFellas" just does not seem to be there anymore and that's extremely unfortunate. I do not look forward to his films like I used to.

 

At the same time, I feel he has made quite enough films in his lifetime that are and will be considered classics for many decades to come. He has certainly made his contribution to cinema time and time again.

 

That said, I do not know Max Jacoby other than to see his posts on this forum. But I have no respect for anyone who may make a member feel that his/her post is unwanted on this forum simply because he/she is not subscribing to the opinions of others. I made my share of unpopular comments on this forum before I came back here. And if a certain cinematographer bores Max to death, he has every right to express that view.

 

The last time I checked, this was still a free country.

Edited October 8, 2006 by Bill DiPietra

[freddie bonfanti]

I personally have not seen "The Departed" but the trailers do not impress me.

 

 

well then go and watch it then, so that we can keep discussing about it

[Guest Tim Partridge]

I eagerly await the Michael Ballhaus review of BUTTERFLIES. ;)

[Tim Tyler]

I AM NOT ATTACKING MAX BECAUSE HE CRITICISED A MOVIE, i am doing so because...

 

Exactly my point. Do not attack forum members for any reason. If you want to contribute to a constructive argument, that's fine, but attacking is off limits.

 

(David S.- I just deleted your last post by accident - sorry)

[timHealy]

I hardly find Michael boring at all. His body of work as a whole is outstanding and I am amazed that he shot in Germany for 20 years before he even started doing it in the US and mainstream Hollywood. I have worked on three movies with him and he is kind of like someone's good natured grandfather. He is easy to work for and nothing is a problem. He asks for a light once and it stays where he places it. A true professional unlike the nitwits who have electricians and grips moving lights all the time for the same shot. And when dealing with a difficult director or production he has some fairly witty things to say. He is great and I love working for the man. He came out of retirement to do Departed and having worked on it, I am looking forward to seeing it. He also participates in some cinematography programs in Germany and has students visiting with him all the time.

 

On a sad note, I understand that his wife past away a week or two ago.

 

My condolances to the Ballhaus family

 

Best

 

Tim

Edited October 9, 2006 by timHealy

[Keith Mottram]

Saw this last night and thought it was pretty enjoyable. I thought the lighting suited the film and was not too showy or distracting- which was a major relief after the 'look at me' Aviator. It was also a nice contrast if you knew the original. However there was a distinct problem with coverage, a lot of scenes had major edit issues, with frequent yo-yo's and some slightly dodgy eye line jumps and a large amount of continuity issues. I couldn't help feeling the film's edit would have benefitted from a few more cameras. DI was solid but still a little soft. The rock music dipping up and down was very distracting and lazy. The music choices also felt very dated- someone should take Scorcese on a trip round Virgin Records. Also hated the pointless clip where Jack chucks cocaine on the bed. that was proper poop. and i'm sure would have been chopped out completely had it not been Jack's idea... whilst I don't think it was phoned in as Max said, I do think it was Scorcese doing a Scorcese. and theres nothing wrong with that. As I never want to sit through the tedium of his 'epic' pictures again.

 

Keith

[Chance Shirley]

I don't get it. I just can't understand how someone who likes movies could not enjoy The Departed. The acting, cinematography, music, editing--everything about it that makes a movie a movie--is thrilling. I saw it yesterday afternoon, and I'm still excited about it.

 

I feel kinda bad for Scorsese and his crew and cast. They put together a tremendous piece of filmmaking, and half the Internet dismisses it as crap.

 

Could some of you Departed haters point me in the direction of some movies you enjoyed from the past year or so? 'Cause if The Departed is bad filmmaking, my brain will probably explode when I see the good stuff.

[timHealy]

While half the internet thought it was crap, it made 27 million dollars over the long holiday weekend

 

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr/artic...t_id=1003222420

 

best

 

Tim

[Jason Debus]

It definitely was Scorsese getting back to the gangster formula which basically comes down to who is going to get 'whacked'. On that level it was fine but lasted maybe 30 minutes too long in my opinion. I enjoyed Nicholson's and Wahlberg's performances but didn't think much of DiCaprio's or Damon's. Alec Baldwin seemed to be doing a parody of himself which was pretty funny.

 

After reading the ASC article about how Scorsese had Ballhaus watch recent asian cinema such as Oldboy I was hyped to see something exciting cinematography-wise but was for the most part disappointed. Like Keith said it suited the film but I found it rather ordinary. It didn't help that I had just seen Reds the night before, perhaps my expectations were too high. I think I enjoyed Florian's blockbuster treatment of Flightplan more than his dad's cinematography in this!

[Brad Grimmett]

Wow! What a wide range of opinions! I just saw the film tonight and I'm one of the folks that loved it! I thought the acting was incredible (Nicholson is a shoe in for an Oscar), and the editing and music really moved the film along and fit wonderfully with the story. The cinematography didn't stand out, and I think that's a good thing. There is plenty going on in this film to focus your attention on....showy cinematography would have been a distraction in my opinion. This is one of Scorsese's best films, certainly the best of the last ten years.

I loved the comedic elements of the film. I didn't expect to laugh so much, but it's one of the things that made the film so good.

I think this film could have been a mess without Scorsese at the helm. It's a pretty complicated story, but I was never confused. Also, this was the shortest 2 1/2 hour movie I've ever seen.

I was one of the folks that wasn't that excited by the trailer. The thing is, I don't think you could possibly cut a trailer that did the film justice. Don't worry about not liking the movie because the trailer doesn't interest you. You'll be happily surprised.

[freddie bonfanti]

thank god you just made the best point, brad. i couldnt agree more.

Edited October 11, 2006 by freddie bonfanti

[Brad Grimmett]

thank god you just made the best point, brad. i couldnt agree more.

Which particular point are you referring to?

[Michael McIntyre]

I actually really enjoyed "The Departed". Regardless of the many jabs back-and-forth in this thread, I will own up to liking the film. It proved a twisty plot with interesting characters and, like others here, I found it a compelling story.

 

I don't know that Ballhaus' work needed to draw attention to itself either. The dolly work alone was amazing (for the tech-specific). The crew may have had some fun with them but I don't know that the "X" patterns were necessary foreshadowing gags.

 

Maybe I'm a sucker for Scorsese but I endorse this picture.

[Josh Bass]

Me likey.

 

 

Although, it should have been titled and prounounced "The Depaated".

 

 

Kept my interest throughout, except a for a few bits, one of which was later in the film when Jack and Leo are in the empty restaurant bar talking about rats. For a long time. Yeah, it felt long, but that might just be my ADD talking.

[gustavius smith]

I thought the look of the film matched the mood and the genre. There is a line in the film where Jack speaks to himself in which he says the black people of Boston have not learned the lesson of the Irish which is that no one is going to give you anything, you have to take it. I wonder if Scorcesse was outwardly expressing/explaining his motive to remake Infernal Affiars the chinese movie and turn it into the Departed. And are the Irish for Scorsesse in this instance hollywood-the great takers- Hollywood is oversampled like hip hop. I think there should be two categories of directors/writers, those who take their ideas from someone else and those who actually sit down observe life, research and come up with an original idea.

I was so let down when I found out that Scarface was a remake of Scarface...the real credit for that film should got Pacino not Stone. Or what about Traffic, the orignal "Trafic" set in Afghanistan and Europe was way better dealing with heroin trade instead of cocaine in Mexico. Now that was really a take. Hey if I'm not mistaken (I could be) Do the right thing, She's got to have it, Jungle Fever, Menace to Society, Boys in the Hood, Hustle and Flow, Akeelah and the Bee are all orginal ideas. Nonetheless the Departed was a great film I highly recommend it. Scorcesse waited for the final credit to tell the world this film was a remake, the last credit, it should be the first.

 

Gustavius Smith

NY NY

Edited October 15, 2006 by gustavius smith

[David Sweetman]

Sawr it last night and I really liked it. It was pretty intense. I just thought at times DiCaprio acted too hard, but other than that - no, the image didn't do anything crazy, but did it really need to? Probably my second-favorite Scorsese under Taxi Driver.

Edited October 15, 2006 by David Sweetman

[Matt Serrins]

I think a lot of the criticism of this film comes down to Scorsese and his legacy. I liked The Departed, but for me (and maybe for a lot of people), it's hard to really love and get excited about this movie when thinking about Scorsese's body of work. I also saw Infernal Affairs before The Departed, so in some ways that will always be the original and basis for comparison.

 

Thought the cinematography was fine but maybe a little uninspired. Not sure there's any classic Scorsese like the tracking nightclub shot in Goodfellas (or the car trunk/red scene with Pesci burying the body), the boxing scenes in Raging Bull (or the final shot in the mirror), the slo-mo bar scene with rock music in Mean Streets, or the ultra stylized ending of Taxi Driver. And that's fine. Not sure there's anything 'bravura' about The King of Comedy, but I love that movie.

 

For me, the bigger problem was that the movie just didn't have that much to say, especially for a Scorsese movie. This territory has been covered by Michael Mann ad nauseaum, and I'm not sure Scorsese added anything new re: life undercover, evil, parralellism between cops and crooks. One of the things I liked about Goodfellas is that you realize they're petty, small time, banal people, and also that they're addicted to the lifestyle. They feel guilty but want more. For me it dealt with the romaticism of the gangster life but ultimately exposed it. Not sure The Departed left me thinking about anything new.

 

I also really didn't like the ending, especially the last shot with the rat (too glib for me, though I guess it makes sense with the movie's POV). If I remember correctly, Infernal Affairs ended with the Matt Damon character living, having to deal with his empty life as a police officer. To me that's a more realistic ending. With Damon dead in The Departed, it's tidier: justice is somehow served, and good triumphs, though at a cost. I guess I just find the Matt Damon character more interesting. To me Dicaprio character is obvious and telegraphed: missing father, can't choose between good and evil, dies in service of good. Damon's character, if he lives, is harder to deal with. Can he become good? Is he ultimatley corrupt etc?

 

As for the other technical aspects, I really liked the editing, especially the playfullness/quick cutting in the beginning. I also really liked the NAS song. I wish Scorsese would use some newer music.

 

Anyway, the departed was definitely enjoyable, but for a lot of scorsese-philes, myself included, that's not really enough.

[Brad Grimmett]

I also really didn't like the ending, especially the last shot with the rat (too glib for me, though I guess it makes sense with the movie's POV).

I wish Scorsese would use some newer music.

 

Anyway, the departed was definitely enjoyable, but for a lot of scorsese-philes, myself included, that's not really enough.

I agree about the ending. I didn't like the rat at all. It had almost slipped my mind because I basically ignored that it was even in the movie.

In regards to music: He used a lot of Dropkick Murphy's music, which to me was pretty fresh and different.

I have to disagree with your generalization about scorses-philes. I love classic Scorsese, and I loved The Departed.

[Emmanuel Lariviere]

I just saw it today. I had a great time. I thought it was a very good film. As far as the look, I think Ballhaus did a good job. The print I saw was very clean and sharp. I know the film had a DI but at times it looked like it was shot on a Genesis or a D20. And I mean that in a good way. :D

[Bob Hayes]

I must say Michael Ballhaus? work was pretty inconsistent and often looked low budget. As a DP who spends a lot of time working with small budgets I fight constantly and to get my work up to the quality of the people I admire. I rarely win at this battle. And, I am doing this on 15% of the budget and support these DPs have. So it surprises me when there work looks like some of my weaker work on a rushed day. I guess much of the work of a DP is just the luck of the draw. Sometimes you end up with a location that is difficult to bring alive or a schedule that just hammers some of your scenes.

 

Also I can?t knock DPs who are passionate about your work. It?s when you loose that passion that you have to worry.

[Ignacio Aguilar]

Ballhaus has never been my cup of tea either, and this film has proven it once more. Other than Scorsese's trademark travellings & zooms shots, no visual element caught my interest. The grain and sharpness were very inconsistent throughout and I still feel Ballhaus' use of fill light is really old-fashioned. It also makes everything flatter than I like.

 

And I've just seen "Infernal Affairs", which is not a great film either, but at least don't takes itself so seriously and tells the story in a very straighforward manner. Anybody knows which anamorphic lenses did they use on this one? The film was shot at wide apertures (I would say T/2-2.8 split) and there are lots of optical aberrations, much more than what I'm used to with modern anamorphics. That's why I guess they used some old optics, but I can't tell for sure as I've seen it on DVD.

[Arni Heimir]

I saw this film a week ago. I hate to say it, but I agree with Max Jacoby on this one. It wasn't what I expected. Although I enjoyed Jack Nicholsons' performance. But Michael Ballhaus has proven himself on other projects that he is a brilliant DP. Plus Martin Scorsese has proven his directorial talents many times. I think that "Goodfellas" was the most brilliant Scorsese-Ballhaus collaboration of them all.