Cesar Rubio Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 (edited) Wow! You're obviously pretty smart to insult people like me who actually tried to HELP you! Since you always mention Jesus, let me ask you this: is that what Jesus taught you to do? "If someone helps you, just insult him! If he is kind to you, kick him in the balls!" is that what is written in the Bible? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: In what way are you trying to help me Emmanuel? I don't understand the sarcasm of the Red Camera comment... I don't see Alejandro as a God, or that he is perfect. Actually I didn't like the hand held shots in the movie. But I liked the Message of the Movie, and the movie as a whole is well shot, I liked the excellent photography shots of scenes. What it angers me is that some people are against ALL World Wide recognized institutions just because their favorite movies or directors etc. didn't win anything (or were even nominated). So Titanic, The English Patient, Gladiator, The Pianist, etc are "gimmicks" too? All those are a part of my favorites movies, and I think that their awards are well deserved! Thanks, Cesar Rubio. Edited February 25, 2007 by Cesar Rubio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Max Jacoby Posted February 26, 2007 Premium Member Share Posted February 26, 2007 Didn't you read that Alejandro González Iñárritu won the Cannes Festival for BEST director of 2006? Of course I did. But what makes you think that every film that gets an award is automatically great? I prefer to make up my own mind about films. There are many times when I did not agree with awards or was dissapointed by an awarded-winning film and 'Babel' is just one of those. If you had won ANY of this awards, wouldn't you tell EVERYBODY who would listen about your recognition regardless of the Academy or Festival?. As a matter of fact I don't feel like I have to tell everybody abour the awards that I've won. If people have heard about it already then it's nice to be congratulated of course, but I am not fishing for compliments. As nice as they are, awards are just the subjective opinion of a jury. This is not the Olympics where one can objectively measure who is best, and aiming to win something is not why I make fims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmanuel Decarpentrie Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 (edited) In what way are you trying to help me Emmanuel? :blink: :D :lol: I just wanted to show some sort of "empathy"... Trying to rephrase your "confused" argumentation... Trying to remind the fact it is possible to like both Tarkovsky's or Kieslowki's movies and yet feel some emotion when watching "Babel"... But never mind! I shall never try that again, since I am just an "Idiot"... I don't understand the sarcasm of the Red Camera comment... That's because you're probably TOO old to get what the word "Humor" actually means... Actually I didn't like the hand held shots in the movie. Don't ever watch a Dardenne Movie then :) Twice the winners of Canne's "palme d'or", these are directors I admire (and somehow am professionally closely related too)... But never mind... What it angers me is that some people are against ALL World Wide recognized institutions just because their favorite movies or directors etc. didn't win anything (or were even nominated). That is a pretty bold assumption of yours! Now, you claim to know what's in people's mind! If one doesn't like Babel, it must be because his favorite director didn't win anything! Wow! You truly have a simplistic (and dare I say... arrogant) way of judging people! So Titanic, The English Patient, Gladiator, The Pianist, etc are "gimmicks" too? No one said so, AFAIK! But what is the point of comparing apples and oranges? Kieslowski's movies are absolutely impossible to compare to any of your "favorite movies" (most of which I liked very much too)... On the one hand, you have "entertainment", on the other hand, you have "art"! Apple and oranges! Some people prefer apples, some prefer oranges! No one should ever claim that the Truth is that "apples are better than oranges" or vice-versa! PERIOD! Again, I think I'm wasting my time with someone whose main argument is to insult people! Astalavista Cesar! Edited February 26, 2007 by Emmanuel Decarpentrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Lachenay Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 (edited) We may not have the money, nor the power you Americans have, but we still have reasons to be proud of our Mexican Origin! We are no "sub-humans"! You are no "Uber Mensch" either! So, if you critic Inaritu's work with harsh words - like some people did on this thread - you are in fact trying to destroy our National Hero! This is ridiculous and I am tired of it. Let me tell you a little story about my grandmother: My grandmother was born in Armenia in 1909. Less than a decade would pass before her entire immediate family (discluding one sister) would be murdered during a genocide that goes underappreciated today. She was placed in brutal, unloving, low-end American Foster care until she was adopted by a strict catholic family in her teens. As an adult woman of Armenian heritage, she worked her way into a secretary job at DOW chemical company (a outlet that had a policy of not hiring jews or african americans at the time, so you coul dimagine how tricky it was to fill that spot given her complexion) and raised a family with my Irish born grandfather (who fought for America and the safety of the world in the second world war). After her children had grown, my grandmother made great personal sacrifices to protest, donate money (a lot of money that, for her, a working class woman, could have meant a lot for her personal well being) and extended her voice during the civil rights movement. Her sacrifices are a small piece of the whole that now ensures men and woman of all colors and ethnic origins equal treatment in this country. Today, she has to sit and watch television and listen to lazy, ungrateful people whine about their woes, but never act or sacrifice anything to create change. She has to listen to people talk about how they are viewed as "sub-human," when her entire ethnic origin was nearly wiped out and goes fairly unrecognized. She has to listen to every single thing any one says get warped into an accusation of racism or practiced inequality, when housed protestors and donated money from her savings and home to ensure that racism would no longer be perpetuated (which is exactly what rubio is doing through his baseless accusation). Film stopped being about nationalism just about around the same time my grandmother got a job at DOW. Critics have helped change the world of film....they have reinvented the art for through thier critiques. I feel terrible for people who base the quality of a film on thier own national pride. BABEL was a film...not an essay or homage to INARITU'S nationality (in fact, arriaga is the one behind all of inaritu's films). I just...I don't know... I feel sorry for you that you think that his being mexican is more important than him being a good filmmaker. I wish people could look past such things in film...I wish they could see its true beauty and not have their appreciation for a piece be completely dictated by the nationality of the person who made it. I wrote a critical assessment of how I percieved the film. That is mine...and that is my right. In my assessment, I never once put down the views of others...I never once imposed my cinematic taste ove rthem as the correct one, nor did I insinuate that. YOu have no right to judge how I felt about this film, just as I have no right to judge the reaction you, personally, gained from it. I feel sorry for the people here who are doing that because it is wrong. Edited February 26, 2007 by Robert Lachenay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. Whitehouse Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Has Jim Murdoch returned? They kind of look alike. Except now Jim has found the word of god and dislikes hand-held (in a primarily hand-held film). The ten percent on sticks or steadicam must have been pretty powerful Cesar. Sasha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmanuel Decarpentrie Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 This is ridiculous and I am tired of it. I can understand that! Just wanted to remind you those words weren't really mine: I was just trying to put my feet in Cesar's shoes! But that truly was a stupid move of mine! Sorry 'bout that... Thanks for sharing what your grandmother went through... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Lachenay Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 (edited) And I don't dislike "commercial" movies. I dislike commercial movies posing as art...pretending to have something to say through directorial slight-of-hand. Movies CAN be artful and entertaining...I just dislike masked intentions and profound style becoming confused with profound content. As I said in an earlier post and as Bergman observed upon completing CRIES and WHISPERS: The universal struggles are much better articulated through focus on individual struggle. I can't say that I believe Inaritu cared one bit for his characters and, in turn, failed to completely deliver his message. I can understand that! Just wanted to remind you those words weren't really mine: I was just trying to put my feet in Cesar's shoes! But that truly was a stupid move of mine! Sorry 'bout that... Thanks for sharing what your grandmother went through... And forgive me, Emmanuel...this discussion-turned-argument has become way too confusing for me to know which way is up anymore. :) Kieslowski's "Bleu-Blanc-Rouge I'm a "Dekalog" man myself. Truffaut was more than likely sarcastic when he said that :) Ehhh...you never know. He did call the wives of many filmmakers, whores...and the filmmakers themselves "homosexual conformists..." just to be mean, haha. He could be quite brutal at times...especiallyy in his beginning stages at the ARTS. Edited February 26, 2007 by Robert Lachenay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cesar Rubio Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Robert: How many words do you have? When some body closes a case...ZIP is CLOSED. Then when somebody gives up. END of STORY. Emmanuel: Putting words on some body's "mouth", its not the wisest move as you've discovered by now. Thanks for your input anyhow. Please lets STOP this NOW! This has become a CESAR RUBIO vs STUDENTS and IMMATURE TEENAGERS kind of war. I did a LOT of fighting when I was your age, please let this "old" man in peace for God's sake! Cesar Rubio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Lachenay Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 (edited) Robert: How many words do you have? When some body closes a case...ZIP is CLOSED. Then when somebody gives up. END of STORY. Emmanuel: Putting words on some body's "mouth", its not the wisest move as you've discovered by now. Thanks for your input anyhow. Please lets STOP this NOW! This has become a CESAR RUBIO vs STUDENTS and IMMATURE TEENAGERS kind of war. I did a LOT of fighting when I was your age, please let this "old" man in peace for God's sake! Cesar Rubio. You're doing a lot of fighting now. In fact, before you...there wasn't any fighting. We were (gasp!) having a discussion. I really wish you would just leave so that we could continue that discussion, because I was enjoying it. I really was. Edited February 26, 2007 by Robert Lachenay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmanuel Decarpentrie Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 And I don't dislike "commercial" movies. I dislike commercial movies posing as art... It's all a matter of words! For me, as I said before, a movie can be considered to be strictly "commercial" when its main purpose is to "make money"! When the director's main job is to ensure the "commercial profitability" of the movie, I believe he is completly missing the point of "making movies"... Those movies are neither "Art" movies, nor are they even truly "entertaining" in my opinion. Some people might be "entertained" by them, but I'm generally not one of those... And most people tend to forget about those movies pretty quickly! Hence this paradox: commercial movies aren't typically the most profitable ones, according to my own definition of what a "commercial movie" is... A movie cease to be a purely "commercial" one in my book as soon as one can feel the director truly cared for the story and the characters he was bringing to life. Those are Real Movies, in my opinion. Wether they can be considered to be "Pure Pieces of Art" or simply "Entertainment" is another question... "E.T." is a good example of a good "Entertainment" kind of movie! It really is a Real Movie! One can feel Spielberg's passion for his story and caracters throughout the movie. But is it to be considered a piece of Art to be compared with movies like some of Bergman's, or Cocteau's movies? Or like Citizen Kane? I think not... Movies CAN be artful and entertaining...I just dislike masked intentions and profound style becoming confused with profound content. Agreed! As I said in an earlier post and as Bergman observed upon completing CRIES and WHISPERS: The universal struggles are much better articulated through focus on individual struggle. I can't say that I believe Inaritu cared one bit for his characters and, in turn, failed to completely deliver his message. I accept this point, although I don't fully agree about the "I don't believe Inaritu cared one bit for his characters"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francesco Bonomo Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 This has become a CESAR RUBIO vs STUDENTS and IMMATURE TEENAGERS kind of war. you're insulting all members of this board by hijacking a thread that was incidentally about a movie that some of us, in fact, like. This may sound strange to you, but most of us don't feel the need to convince everyone else that they're right or labeling whoever sees things differently as just "immature". This thread was about sharing opinions about Babel and thanks to you we're not talking about that movie anymore. You owe everyone an apology. By the way, there are students and teenagers around here that behave way more maturely than you, sir. Goodbye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Lachenay Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 (edited) To me...commercial doesn't have as much to do witht he money aspect as it does to the filmmaker not making a film to please himself, but simply to appeal to others (obviously money comes with that, but it's more dictated by that act of sort of personally sacrificing one's work just to get a possitive reaction out of other people). I don't mean to sound pompous...I don't mean to sound pretentious. I know that i really do and I am really sorry (and you guys have been pretty forgiving toward me in looking pas that, at my ideas). I know that in saying: "Posing as art" it sounds sort of arrogant, but that's what it is to me. Art is something personal...it's an extension of yourself. I like movies that are big at the box office, as long as there is still genuine auteurship left in the piece. To me, BABEL was Inaritu's great big, conformist comedy. He actually turned his aggressive, eccentric style into a cliche in making this film and it is sad. However I respect that this wasn't so for others. Jeez, I hope that made sense, haha.... :rolleyes: :( :) Edited February 26, 2007 by Robert Lachenay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmanuel Decarpentrie Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 (edited) This has become a CESAR RUBIO vs STUDENTS and IMMATURE TEENAGERS kind of war. I did a LOT of fighting when I was your age, please let this "old" man in peace for God's sake! Cesar Rubio. You see, that's exactly your problem! You're just guessing too much! You assume the fact I'm much younger than you are simply because I claimed to be a "Student"... For your record, I am 34! And I worked 10 years as an network engineer, before I decided to do "something else", hence the "student" word! Stop assuming and start growing up in wisdom (and Humor), you, "old" man! Edited February 26, 2007 by Emmanuel Decarpentrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Cangi Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 (edited) Ken, I completely agree with you on this. Still, and there lies the beauty of having different opinions, I think Babel is a terrific film. Diversity of opinion is a beautiful thing. It is one of the fundamental attributes of our culture that I cherish. (although I absolutely love Scorsese and enjoyed "The Departed", but I don't think he deserves an oscar for it). The Departed, unlike Babel, at least maintained a rational storyline. I agree with you in that it is not quite Oscar material - IMHO. Scorsese is certainly a master craftsman and more than capable of holding his own in the industry, so I hope that the Academy doesn't patronize him by awarding this film just to recognize his accomplisments. I would rather see him get one for his lifetime achievements. My humble two cents.. Always appreciated, my friend. Cheers, Ken Edited February 26, 2007 by Ken Cangi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmanuel Decarpentrie Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 To me...commercial doesn't have as much to do witht he money aspect as it does to the filmmaker not making a film to please himself, but simply to appeal to others Interesting point-of-view. Does that mean you think "non commercial" movie directors mainly intend to please themselves when they make a movie? I don't mean to sound pompous...I don't mean to sound pretentious. You sure don't sound pomous or pretentious at all, in my opinion. Quite the contrary in fact! Art is something personal...it's an extension of yourself. Very good point indeed! I like movies that are big at the box office, as long as there is still genuine auteurship left in the piece. I think we're both in full agreement for that point! Genuine auteurship is what makes "Real Movies" in my book! Genuine auteurship is what makes people remember about the movie, because they truly felt some genuine emotions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Brad Grimmett Posted February 26, 2007 Premium Member Share Posted February 26, 2007 Please lets STOP this NOW! This has become a CESAR RUBIO vs STUDENTS and IMMATURE TEENAGERS kind of war. I did a LOT of fighting when I was your age, please let this "old" man in peace for God's sake! Cesar Rubio. I can't seem to find any of your award winning work online Cesar (or is it David?). Is it possible that you're NOT an award winning filmmaker? Surely IMDB would have all of your awards listed if there were any. You're telling people that they can't criticize a film without having won awards themselves, yet you are doing exactly that it seems. Please post links to all of your award winning work so that you can continue to post your opinion on this board, since that is the necessity for having an opinion in your mind. I liked Babel, but your argumentative and nasty tone is almost making me like it less, hoping it won't win so you won't have the satisfaction. This is terribly childish of course, but I guess childish behavior breeds more childish behavior. I don't think you understand that you're not talking to students and "immature teenagers". The one teenager that has posted is very articulate and makes his points very coherently (something that can't be said for you). And all of the rest of the folks involved in this discussion are working professionals in the film business (I don't think the same can be said of you). They've made their points based on their opinions, and without resorting to name calling. They actually have respect for other people and their opinions (unlike you). I suggest you chill the f**k out and behave like an adult, or go and post on your own message board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Lachenay Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Interesting point-of-view. Does that mean you think "non commercial" movie directors mainly intend to please themselves when they make a movie? More to express themselves. Compromising that self-expression in the aim to appeal to others is what makes (in my opinion) a "commercial movie." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cesar Rubio Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Brad? who in the hell are you? a camera operator? At least I OWN the cameras that I operate, and I operate them for MY work. Not the work of OTHERS. I've been an adult since I was 7 years old.... Yes, I see that you are very "mature" patronizing immature guys who think that they know everything saying that the Oscars are worthless....their comments are worthless, to any mature adult at least. Ceasr Rubio. You're doing a lot of fighting now. In fact, before you...there wasn't any fighting. We were (gasp!) having a discussion. I really wish you would just leave so that we could continue that discussion, because I was enjoying it. I really was. A "discussion" or trashing other peoples work? Nobody has the right to say that people don't deserve recognition of their work, if you like it or not. I have the balls to stand up and defend in what I believe, even though some (please read carefully NOT ALL) members of this respectful forum, are crazy saying that the world must be like they see it! I DON'T have nobody to apologize , especially when they are attacking me or my friends. Whoever wants to bring this off list , just bring it on buddies. Cesar Rubio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Luke Prendergast Posted February 26, 2007 Premium Member Share Posted February 26, 2007 Clicked in at the end of this thread, and after reading a few posts I must say the title 'Babel' is entirely appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Cangi Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 (edited) Cesar, Your disrespectful comments has made it painfully apparent that you are either trolling, tying to offend people, or are simply ignorant of your bad behavior. I am sorry to say this, but your contributions to this thread are neither productive nor are they appreciated by several of the members who have explicitly expressed that to you. If you are unable to behave in a considerate manner toward the members of this group, then maybe this forum isn't the best fit for you, in which case you might think about bowing out of the conversation. You are making no friends here. Edited February 26, 2007 by Ken Cangi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cesar Rubio Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Cesar, Your disrespectful comments has made it painfully apparent that you are either trolling, tying to offend people, or are simply ignorant of your bad behavior. I am sorry to say this, but your contributions to this thread are neither productive nor are they appreciated by several of the members who have explicitly expressed that to you. If you are unable to behave in a considerate manner toward the members of this group, then maybe this forum isn't the best fit for you, in which case you might think about bowing out of the conversation. You are making no friends here. I don't like friends like you, or the ones who disrespect other peoples work. How many friends you or your kid friends are going to have in Hollywood saying that the Oscars are worthless? Are you moderator of this forum? if not, don't take other peoples jobs please. You are a great example of disrespectful person...why is that people like you don't see the stupid words coming out of their mouths and are only listening to other "disrespectful" words of others? Is this respectful in your dictionary?..."I suggest you chill the f**k out " Cesar Rubio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Lachenay Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 (edited) This is insane. It was a very patient, kind post for you to respond with such cruelty to, Cesar. Is this really how people act? It's sort of disenchanting. Edited February 26, 2007 by Robert Lachenay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Cangi Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 (edited) This is insane. It was a very patient, kind post for you to respond with such cruelty to, Cesar. Is this really how people act? It's sort of disenchanting. He's probably a just troll, Rob. It's too bad that I can't find an ignore button, or I would just turn him off. I just found it. Problem solved. Edited February 26, 2007 by Ken Cangi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cesar Rubio Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 This is insane. It was a very patient, kind post for you to respond with such cruelty to, Cesar. Is this really how people act? It's sort of disenchanting. Then you wont be offended by this: You never know when to shut the f**k up? Cesar Rubio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Sheehy Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Then you wont be offended by this: You never know when to shut the f**k up? Cesar Rubio. How about we move the discussion over here: http://www.davidrubio3d.com/ But wait! I just looked there, and this type of language isn't allowed over there either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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