high contrast film

[erolroniberaha]

After coming back from the army, I saw that most of the kodak stock I knew was discontinued and the new vision2 stocks are on the market. So I got the test dvd that kodak made about vision 100,200,expression 500 and 500t. Most of the dps that shoot the short films said the new stocks are less saturated and there is more detail in the shadow. To cut the long storyshort, altough all the dps loved this new look, I dont want to see more detail in the shadow, I dont want to see less saturation or less grain. I kow that I can get these old stock from film emporium or else where. I just wonder is there a stock coming that the latitude is not that great and the blacks will be just black without any detail, snd there is apperant grain? You may say that u can get these by skip bleach,push process or lighting with higer ratios which is not my answer. for my taste I like grainy and high contrast images and I am wondering will there be any stock that will help me to get these images much easier?

 

 

Excuse me if I misuse some terms as I am trying the reproduce the braincells that I lost in the army.

 

Regards

 

Erol Roni Beraha

Istanbul

[Matt Wells]

Apparently the new Ektachrome 100D has a very saturated look - mabe just what you are looking for.

 

I am keen to try some just as soon as Kodak Motion Picture in the UK get some 16mm stock!

 

Matt

[John Pytlak RIP]

I just wonder is there a stock coming that the latitude is not that great and the blacks will be just black without any detail, snd there is apperant grain?

 

As Kodak introduces new and improved films like the Kodak VISION2 Color Negative films, most of the sales volume shifts to the new films, although the previous generation of films is usually left on the market as long as there is sufficient demand. Unfortunately, the lower volume films cannot be stocked in all sales offices, so sufficent time is needed to ship the films in. Tony Brown has commented on the same situation when he wanted to use older films for their "look".

 

Films are discontinued when there is no longer sufficient demand, or the cost of reformulating to meet new environmental requirements (e.g., the VNF films) is prohibitive.

 

Remember, film is coated in wide rolls that yield many units. Since film is perishable and must be discarded when it is too old, when sales volumes of a particular film do not justify a production coating that will sit in inventory for over a year and have to be discarded, tough decisions have to be made.

 

The latest changes and discontinued films are listed in the on-line Kodak Product Change Notices:

 

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/newslett...=0.1.4.17&lc=en

[erolroniberaha]

Thank you John for your explanation, I will contact local kodak representetive and hope theyhave older stocks.

[David Mullen ASC]

Vision 800T is grainy, has a little more contrast and saturation than the Vision-2 stocks. You can also shoot Vision 500T (5279) and push-process it.

 

It's hard for a film manufacturer to make every possible visual combination: low-contrast/low-saturation, high-contrast/high-saturation, high-contrast/ low-saturation, etc. It's not financially feasible to make and warehouse so many stocks.

 

And with the move towards digital intermediates, I think the idea is that with Vision-2 stocks scanned digitally, one can create a variety of looks in post.

 

Although I've talked to Fuji and Kodak about the idea of making a color reversal look built into a negative stock...

[Nitin Sagar]

...I saw that most of the kodak stock I knew was discontinued and the new vision2 stocks are on the market. So I got the test dvd that kodak made about vision 100,200,expression 500 and 500t. Most of the dps that shoot the short films said the new stocks are less saturated and there is more detail in the shadow. To cut the long storyshort, altough all the dps loved this new look, I dont want to see more detail in the shadow, I dont want to see less saturation or less grain. I kow that I can get these old stock from film emporium or else where. I just wonder is there a stock coming that the latitude is not that great and the blacks will be just black without any detail, snd there is apperant grain? You may say that u can get these by skip bleach,push process or lighting with higer ratios which is not my answer. for my taste I like grainy and high contrast images and I am wondering will there be any stock that will help me to get these images much easier?

 

 

Excuse me if I misuse some terms as I am trying the reproduce the braincells that I lost in the army.

 

Regards

 

Erol Roni Beraha

Istanbul

incidentally i was disucussing somewhat similar issue with a very senior Dp ..who also was the first Dp i ever assisted...my question to him was how different is vision2 from the EXR range...he went ahead and made the same remarks ...more latitude more details in black...

 

As Mr. mullen says with DI one can achieve any look...DI is the most practical and cost effective way of getting to the "look" in todays age..

 

at the same time Lawrence of Arabia...Godfather ... sophie's choice apocalpyso now...the little buddha(the list is endless)and tons of classics were not DI...

 

as times change it wise and practical to adapt to new technology ..rather than being rigid.... change is always good and for better....

 

i have never shot anything but Vision or Vision2....but hoping to shoot on EXR100 (in india senior Dp still call it the war horse) befor it becomes extinct..

[Nathan Milford]

I had actually heard somewhere that Vision 800T was discontinued... probably or rumor or a misunderstanding. I have 800' of it in the fridge.

 

- nathan

[John Pytlak RIP]

I had actually heard somewhere that Vision 800T was discontinued... probably or rumor or a misunderstanding. I have 800' of it in the fridge.

 

Yes, Kodak VISION 800T Color Negative Film was discontinued. The announcement was in April 2004:

 

http://www.kodak.com/US/plugins/acrobat/en...PCN040504_Q.pdf

[GeorgeSelinsky]

Yes, Kodak VISION 800T Color Negative Film was discontinued. The announcement was in April 2004

Wow, that one slipped by me pretty quitely. I wasn't a big fan of that stock anyway, used it once and it's really just a better idea to use 5218 and push. Even in 35 it was grainy as hell.

 

I wonder if there will be any faster Vision 2 stocks.

 

- G.

[John Pytlak RIP]

it's really just a better idea to use 5218 and push

 

I believe that was the thinking.

[Adam Frisch FSF]

I shot a short in brightest sunlit exterior on the 800T because Kodak had sponsored us with it. Can you imagine the amount of filtration I had in front of the camera? Through the

viewfinder it looked like a night shoot! But I agree, the 800 wasn't the best of stocks. It was

even grainy in telecine, which not many film stocks tend to be.

 

That said, I do welcome the prospect of maybe a 1000T Vision2 or a 1600T Vision2 down the line for exactly those shooting times Michael Mann talked about in his latest film Collateral. You just can't overexpose a city nighstcape at night enough - it just gets better and better.

 

Incidentally, there are some fabulous night scenes of a flying chopper silhouetted against the LA cityscape in Mann's seminal film Heat. That was shot on 5298 (pushed one stop, I believe) and anamorphic lenses and it looked just great.

[GeorgeSelinsky]

I shot a short in brightest sunlit exterior on the 800T because Kodak had sponsored us with it. Can you imagine the amount of filtration I had in front of the camera?

Same here actually, I had a stack of ND's in front too, and overexposed by 1 stop. Still was a grainfest.

 

- G.

[erolroniberaha]

Vision 800T is grainy, has a little more contrast and saturation than the Vision-2 stocks. You can also shoot Vision 500T (5279) and push-process it.

 

I remember reading Geoff Boyle saying that, when he used to work for a lab, in push processing 1 stop push isnt actually one stop it is actually 1/3 and 2 stop push is around 2/3 of a stop. correct me if I am wrong. so my attempt to get high contrast image will not be that easy. for the digital intermediate process, there is one project that will be blown up to 35 from super 16, I may use it but other than that, the going back to film from di is pretty s new here and I dont actually trust the guys because of some other problems that I have heard. time will show ı guess.

 

thanks for the answers

 

Erol Roni beraha

[John Pytlak RIP]

A "push 1" process increases the density of a negative underexposed by one stop so it prints like a normally exposed and processed negative. But the "real" speed increase is much less than a stop, so you will likely see less shadow detail and more graininess:

 

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/support/...4.11.4.16&lc=en

[Dominic Case]

I remember reading Geoff Boyle saying that, when he used to work for a lab, in push processing 1 stop push isnt actually one stop it is actually 1/3 and 2 stop push is around 2/3 of a stop. correct me if I am wrong.

Actually I think Geoff would have said that push one stop was around 2/3rds of a stop, etc.

 

Older stocks responded much more rapidly to process variation than more recent ones, and so the conventional adjustment for "push one stop" has less effect than it used to. Anyway, it has never actually increased the film speed in any scientifically measured way by one stop: rather, as John Pytlak explained, it simply adjusts the density of the negative so that it prints as though it had been given one stop more exposure. But the effect is slightly less in the shadow end of the curve, slightly more in the highlights. Mid greys probably shift by around 2/3rds of a stop, highlights by a full stop, shadows a bit less still.

 

That does mean that you get a slight increase in contrast: but if you push much more than one stop, then the increase in fog level of the negative starts to get excessive and you lose more than you gain.

 

Basically, the whole "push one stop" to pretend that you have a faster stock in your camera doesn't make sense anyway. If you could rate 250EI stock at 500Ei (for example) simply by changing the processing, why wouldn't Kodak recommend the changed process as "standard" and rate all their stocks a stop higher? There's no such thing as a free lunch - and there's no free exposure either;-)

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

If you're going DI, is there any point in pushing? Could one simply underexpose and haul it back up digitally?

 

Phil

[Tony Brown]

I've posted again on the difficulty in obtaining 5248, this time in LA with 2 weeks notice.