A New Super-8 Camera

[Alessandro Machi]

Retrothing.com

 

I hope this story stays up for a while on Retrothing.

[Dan Salzmann]

5200 euros is pretty steep for a super8 camera.

Professional use very often requires fast turn around time on development and there are not many labs set up for this.

The small number of filmstocks available in the format is another downside.

[Nate Downes]

Might I point out that any lab able to handle 16mm film can handle DS8 film.

 

I applaud the A-cam guys for this move. If I had the funds, I'd be buying one myself

[Guest Glenn Brady]

A near mint condition Bolex H8 RX4 DS8 camera with three Kern-Paillard Switar primes sold at eBay a few days ago for $395.00. A mint Pathé DS8/BTL camera w/8-64mm f/1.9 Angénieux lens sold for $125.00. Even if an overhaul will be needed before such cameras can be put to use, they'll still cost a small fraction of what the Ikonoscope costs ($6,765.00 at today's exchange rate). There are technicians who'll do conversions of Bolex H8 RX and H16 RX cameras to DS8 for much less than $1.0K. The functionality (if not the ergonomics) of the Bolex and Ikonoscope cameras is comparable, and one could even argue that the Bolex is the more versatile because the range of accessories made for it is so extensive.

 

While I applaud the folks at Ikonoscope for considering this offering, I have to wonder if they can attract twenty-five buyers when far less expensive alternatives exist.

Edited February 1, 2007 by Glenn Brady

[Guest Glenn Brady]

It's Ikonoskop, I see, and not Ikonoscope. Sorry about that.

[James Grahame]

Thanks for mentioning my site, Alex!

 

The direct link to this story is: http://www.retrothing.com/2007/01/a_new_super_8_m.html

 

I agree with others in this thread that ?4200 is quite a bit of money, but I don't think it's fair to compare a brand new crystal sync camera to a secondhand early 1960s windup Bolex. The Ikonoskop team did a fantastic job of creating an extremely compact camera at an extremely low price, especially considering that they've only produced a couple of hundred cameras.

 

The A-Cam would make an ideal camera for extreme sports action shots, vehicle exteriors, music videos, cockpit sequences (race cars and aircraft), and so on.

 

I'd buy the Super 16 model in a minute if the factory offered it with a reflex viewfinder (Du-All has proved that it's possible with their viewfinder add-on).

[Alessandro Machi]

5200 euros is pretty steep for a super8 camera.

Professional use very often requires fast turn around time on development and there are not many labs set up for this.

The small number of filmstocks available in the format is another downside.

 

I think the press release stated there would be a $1,000 discount to those who put a $1,000 dollar discount down. Ironically, I'm now curious about their Super-16 camera, although it would have to have time-exposure to peak my interest.

 

I read that it will equal 10 minutes of run time, I assume 5 minutes per side? That is pretty impressive.

[James Grahame]

I read that it will equal 10 minutes of run time, I assume 5 minutes per side? That is pretty impressive.

Correct. A "standard" 50 ft Super 8 cartridge lasts 2:30 at 24 frames per second. A 100 ft spool of DS8 will run 5 minutes per side.

[Mike Crane]

I think they did a great job. I wonder if it is possible to allow the camera to work with standard super 8 films. Then there would be more film variety and larger group of customers willing to pay.

 

James, thanks for running this. I have always found your site very interesing.

[Matthew Buick]

Reproducing Super 8 Cameras appears to me a rather precarious subject, I would personally like to see 21st century version of tried and tested models that we all love, Bolex would be a good candidate.

[Guest Glenn Brady]

I agree with others in this thread that ?4200 is quite a bit of money, but I don't think it's fair to compare a brand new crystal sync camera to a secondhand early 1960s windup Bolex. The Ikonoskop team did a fantastic job of creating an extremely compact camera at an extremely low price, especially considering that they've only produced a couple of hundred cameras.

 

Given the option of buying a new Ikonoskop DS8 camera or a used Bolex H8 RX4 DS8 camera, hobbyists like me are more likely to opt for the Bolex, and I would be surprised if the DS8 format proves to be of interest to anybody other than hobbyist filmmakers. It's a format whose primary attraction is its economy. Properly maintained, I have to believe the Bolex DS8 will produce results not appreciably different than an Ikonoskop DS8. Crystal motors for the Bolex are readily available and inexpensive.

 

I agree that Ikonoskop has produced a camera that's very competitive on price with other new cameras. In fact, it's only slightly more expensive than a new Bolex SBM spring-wound camera and a lot less expensive than a new Bolex H16 EL camera. Still, I question whether there are buyers prepared to spend ?4,200 on a Super 8 camera, however stylish and well-appointed. If a DS8 Ikonoskop is ever produced, maybe a comparision test with the Bolex H8 RX4 DS8 and Pathé DS8/BTL cameras will serve to demonstrate its advantages.

Edited February 1, 2007 by Glenn Brady

[Alessandro Machi]

Thanks for mentioning my site, Alex!

 

The direct link to this story is: http://www.retrothing.com/2007/01/a_new_super_8_m.html

 

You're welcome James. Cool, there is a direct link as well.

[Matthew Buick]

I personally think the price is too high, they should probably be aiming at the masses, the majority of people who are going to buy a new Super 8 Camera are probably micro-budget filmakers like myself with no more than, say, £250.00 to spend, I'd say that's where the money is, I'd imagine a pretty decent, but simple camera can be built for that price, they should probably design it so that add-ons such as CPU Control Module, Auto Focus System, and even a Video Tap can be...err...added on, I'd also suggest making a C Mount camera, so that the price can be kept lower by not including a lens (as theycan be found cheaper than dirt these days) this also makes the camera more flexible and desirable as a professionl tool, it also shouldn't offer any Auto Exposure facilities (absolutely NOT NESSERCARY) but cost cutting.

 

And people say I'm immature. :D

Edited February 1, 2007 by Matthew Buick

[Troy Warr]

I personally think the price is too high, they should probably be aiming at the masses, the majority of people who are going to buy a new Super 8 Camera are probably micro-budget filmakers like myself with no more than, say, £250.00 to spend, I'd say that's where the money is, I'd imagine a pretty decent, but simple camera can be built for that price, they should probably design it so that add-ons such as CPU Control Module, Auto Focus System, and even a Video Tap can be...err...added on, I'd also suggest making a C Mount camera, so that the price can be kept lower by not including a lens (as theycan be found cheaper than dirt these days) this also makes the camera more flexible and desirable as a professionl tool, it also shouldn't offer any Auto Exposure facilities (absolutely NOT NESSERCARY) but cost cutting.

 

And people say I'm immature. :D

 

Who's calling Matthew immature? C'mon, guys, that's totally unNESSERCARY. :P

[Mark Dunn]

I'm sure you are all aware, and maybe it's just my character set, but euros are not the same as dollars.

?1 is about USD 1.30.

[Fernando Morales]

Great news for everybody! Though I have a Bolex H8 Rex DS8 camera and I love it, I would love to use a brand new DS8 camera! Perhaps this might boost somehow the release of more stocks. DS8 gives steadier images than S8. I've tested with both the Bolex and the Canon 1014XL-S. The Leicina Special might be better but I don't have one. What do you guys think?

 

Best regards,

 

Morales

[Richard Tuohy]

The good folks at Ikonoskop would make a lot of friends and a lot of sales if they could some how put some of their very fine technical and engineering skill into a DS8 perferator and start perfing Fuji neg (they would't be able to get hold of Kodak unperfed 16mm, but the Fuji range in DS8 would be fantastic)

[Dan Salzmann]

"Might I point out that any lab able to handle 16mm film can handle DS8 film.

I applaud the A-cam guys for this move. If I had the funds, I'd be buying one myself"

 

 

Mr. Downes have you asked many of your local labs if they are set up to cut DS8 into lengths of super8 after development?

I'd like to know about the difference in DS8 and 16mm perfs as well.

I've shot lots of super8 and 16mm but never DS8.

[Nate Downes]

"Might I point out that any lab able to handle 16mm film can handle DS8 film.

I applaud the A-cam guys for this move. If I had the funds, I'd be buying one myself"

Mr. Downes have you asked many of your local labs if they are set up to cut DS8 into lengths of super8 after development?

I'd like to know about the difference in DS8 and 16mm perfs as well.

I've shot lots of super8 and 16mm but never DS8.

 

I have, actually. Out of the 5 local labs, only 1 is set up for slicing. However, all 5 are fully capable of processing the film. Worst case, buy a $15 slicer and do it yourself.

[Matthew Buick]

Who's calling Matthew immature? C'mon, guys, that's totally unNESSERCARY. :P

 

Oh, that was SO NESSERCARY!!! <_< You're SO funny.

Edited February 2, 2007 by Matthew Buick

[andres victorero]

I love DS8 is a great format. 30 m (100 ft) give us 5 min so is a very friendly time.

 

I think that is a great new, thanks to the efforts to A:Cam guys. One thing is a converted Bolex H8 and other is a new camera. Ok both can deliver great images but i don´t think that a rental equipment shop or a serious production go to ebay to find a "like a new" and "cheap" coverted bolex, pathe or Canon DS8.

This is just my opion. If I´m wrong, why arri make the new 416 S16 cam if there are lots os NPR, ACL, SR,BL. LTR cams in ebay?

[Guest Glenn Brady]

I love DS8 is a great format. 30 m (100 ft) give us 5 min so is a very friendly time.

 

I think that is a great new, thanks to the efforts to A:Cam guys. One thing is a converted Bolex H8 and other is a new camera. Ok both can deliver great images but i don´t think that a rental equipment shop or a serious production go to ebay to find a "like a new" and "cheap" coverted bolex, pathe or Canon DS8.

This is just my opion. If I´m wrong, why arri make the new 416 S16 cam if there are lots os NPR, ACL, SR,BL. LTR cams in ebay?

 

I share your enthusiasm for the proposed Ikonoskop DS8 camera. I?m just not optimistic that it will be produced. I hope that I'm mistaken.

 

Arriflex can introduce its 416 camera partly because S16 is an accepted professional motion picture format. Can the same be said of DS8? Who are the serious producers waiting for the revival of the DS8 format? Which rental shops are hoping to offer DS8 cameras? Arriflex introduced a DS8 camera in the heyday of that format, but only about ten prototypes were made because there were too few buyers. If, as you seem to suggest, there?s a strong market for the Ikonoskop DS8 camera, then wouldn?t Ikonoskop have received twenty-five deposits already?

 

As a hobbyist filmmaker, I can spend less than $1.0K on a Bolex and get the job done. Why would I want to spend five or six times that amount to achieve the same result with an A-Cam? Just because the camera?s new? Maybe that argument is persuasive for some, but when I?m spending my own money I?ll stick with cheap and perfectly functional.

[Matthew Buick]

I think this camera is aimed at people who shoot movies like ''Sleep Always'', which had a massive budget as far as Super 8 goes.

 

Perhaps ''Sonnyboo Studios'' will buy one. :rolleyes:

[Terry Mester]

Can 16mm Film be purchased without Sprocket Hole perforations? Or is this Camera a Regular 8mm (Double 8) Camera. The Sprocket Holes in the Super 8mm format are narrower than 16mm Film, and this allowed for a wider 6mm Frame with Super8. A 16mm Camera cannot run 16mm Film with Super8 sized Sprocket Holes. I think a better Camera to build would be what was once available: a Super8mm which runs a 200 Foot Reel. It could also be equipped to run the 50 ft Cartridges. It would also need to include a Microcassette Recorder with crystal sync. With this proposed Double8, having to stop and switch sides after 5 minutes would be a nuisance.

[Nate Downes]

Can 16mm Film be purchased without Sprocket Hole perforations? Or is this Camera a Regular 8mm (Double 8) Camera. The Sprocket Holes in the Super 8mm format are narrower than 16mm Film, and this allowed for a wider 6mm Frame with Super8. A 16mm Camera cannot run 16mm Film with Super8 sized Sprocket Holes. I think a better Camera to build would be what was once available: a Super8mm which runs a 200 Foot Reel. It could also be equipped to run the 50 ft Cartridges. It would also need to include a Microcassette Recorder with crystal sync. With this proposed Double8, having to stop and switch sides after 5 minutes would be a nuisance.

 

No, 16mm comes with sprocket holes typically. However, you can order large volumes with single 16mm perf, double-perf, double-density/Regular8mm perf or Super8 perf.