The Jim Jones of cameras

[Walter Graff]

Yes we professionals should now hang up our aprons. It's over. Once it's released we'll be obsolete and all production will switch to neophytes with futuristic looking 4k cameras shooting on rainy, dark days with garbage cans burning in the streets al la Blade Runner [crane up into mist]. Hopefully it will come with a pictorial instruction booklet and something from the old school like the ASC Manual to help explain what those numbers on the lens mean. Better yet a RED shirt and a personal "DoP" website will offer more credential than anything we've done in the past with our outdated film cameras and HDCAM "home movie" cameras. You got to love this stuff. Isn't marketing incredible? Seems we are now famous at the RED website with such posts as this:

"Professional film Cinematographers" like Richard Boddington and Carl Brighton of cinematography.com (Jerks for all I care) with their lame-to-non-existent imdb credits are still wallowing in self deceit and resisting to accept their obsolescence even with futurist minded filmmakers like Peter Jackson already adding Red credits to their reel.

 

I say, exterminate jerks and save us from their noxious mindsets!!!

 

To Red and the team, I say, keep shoving it to the jerks of this industry... like the narrow minded jerks at cinematography.com!"

 

and my favorite response that really has a second and more important meaning to it all:

 

"I don't think it's nice to single people out by their real names on this forum (especially since this forum doesn't have a real-name policy)."

source of excerpt: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1631

 

I think it best to call any RED thread The abcedarian project because I can't find anything but hobbiests on thier website. :)

Edited April 17, 2007 by WALTER GRAFF

[Guest Trevor Swaim]

i agree all this red fever is silly (but it is a cool camera) but to say that reduser.com is the "red website" is just as silly. its just a forum made up of mostly dreamers and coffee shop wannabe's dignifying such things with a response is pointless

[Francesco Bonomo]

Walter, do we really need a forum war? I read that post on the reduser board, but I felt that replying would be pointless.

 

There are a few facts to consider:

- there is a new camera out

- no one has tested the camera in the field (ok, maybe some have, but it's too early to say it is tested and field-proof).

- someone who call himself/herself professional shouldn't really care about it all until he/she gets his/her hands on the camera and runs his/her tests. It's been done over and over again with film cameras, so why should it be any different now?

- technology is a tool, and as professionals we should ALL welcome a new tool that is at our disposal for, say, telling stories with moving images.

 

These, and many more, are the reasons for which a lot of people, including myself, don't feel like talking about Red until they properly test it or falling into these pointless and childish web wars between "factions" (kind of like "Star Wars against Lord of the Rings" and stuff like that).

 

The marketing and some exaggerated reactions (positive and negative) posted on a web board will be forgotten in a month or two, the camera is here to stay.

 

my very humble two cents...

[Nate Downes]

I've had enough fights over the Red these past 4 days. (check my thread a little bit down, the flamefest on myspace was over a Red thread)

 

I see Red as another tool, not necessarily the right tool for the job, but I don't know because it isn't out yet. I still prefer my film cameras, likely always will. For some reason, that ticks off a lot of folk.

[jan von krogh]

[/i]I think it best to call any RED thread The abcedarian project because I can't find anything but hobbiests on thier website. :)

 

if you would check out the posters in detail, you might realize that among these "hobbiest" are emmy-award decorated, NY filmfestival winners, multi-million rental shop owners and A-budget cinematographers from all over the world.

 

however, i have a different views on cinematography.com than some of the posts you quoted have. there are very few, maybe 5,6 posters altogether here, who are highly biased and regulary post unqualified & childish comments. but these few people are just a minority, as they are in the whole industry as well.

[Nate Downes]

if you would check out the posters in detail, you might realize that among these "hobbiest" are emmy-award decorated, NY filmfestival winners, multi-million rental shop owners and A-budget cinematographers from all over the world.

 

however, i have a different views on cinematography.com than some of the posts you quoted have. there are very few, maybe 5,6 posters altogether here, who are highly biased and regulary post unqualified & childish comments. but these few people are just a minority, as they are in the whole industry as well.

 

The truth is, in the right conditions, any of us could decend into trolling. To say "a minority" is being kind. Even the most trollish people, if handled right, can become a very productive board member. Even the most helpful, decend into trolling. So, please, don't add fuel to the fire.

 

Then again, you could be talking about me just as easily as anyone else. I'll admit a heavy bias, but I try not to let it get in my way. (viva Film!)

[Walter Graff]

The truth is, in the right conditions, any of us could decend into trolling.

 

Hey, I just did. :)

 

It's fun reading for me. I'm facinated by how marketing can drive people into a frenzy. I am always reminded of the Cabbage Patch Kids craze of the 1980's. We'll, I have to go to work now. I'm shooting DV today. It's a perfect for what I'm shooting. Isn't that what it's all about!

[Sam Wells]

futuristic looking 4k cameras shooting on rainy, dark days with garbage cans burning in the streets al la Blade Runner [crane up into mist].

 

Walter, you're making this sound pretty romantic !

 

Now if RED introduces Pris and Rachel at next year's NAB, all bets are off B)

 

-Sam

[Patrick Neary]

>It's fun reading for me. I'm facinated by how marketing can drive people into a frenzy.

 

ha ha- but what's going to happen to all of these people when RED is just one more work-a-day camera in the rental inventory?

[jan von krogh]

It's fun reading for me. I'm facinated by how marketing can drive people into a frenzy.

i think you are wrong there - the marketing of red didn´t please me too much (3d renders instead of shots on the website still) but i bought because

- maximum quality

- good workflow (with raw/digital lab included with camera)

- creative shooting options missing from most digital cameras

- outstandig business possible

- s35 sensor and pl lock allows new use for our 35mm glass

- second order as we saw the quality projected in 4k in september 2006.

and that is rather typical for the buyers i know.

 

 

I'm shooting DV today. It's a perfect for what I'm shooting. Isn't that what it's all about!

yes, thats whats its all about - dv, however, i try to avoid that whenever i can.

[Guest]

""Professional film Cinematographers" like Richard Boddington and Carl Brighton of cinematography.com (Jerks for all I care) with their lame-to-non-existent imdb credits are still wallowing in self deceit and resisting to accept their obsolescence even with futurist minded filmmakers like Peter Jackson already adding Red credits to their reel."

 

That's AWESOME!! I love it when those @#*&%$ers at Reduser.net mention me by name!!

 

R,

[Scott Fritzshall]

the marketing of red didn´t please me too much

Are you kidding? You are the marketing for RED. Do you honestly not realize that?

[John Holland]

Richard i am so jealous ,i havent been mentioned in despatches for weeks , you lucky sod :D

[Guest]

Richard i am so jealous ,i havent been mentioned in despatches for weeks , you lucky sod :D

 

Oh well try harder in the future John :D

 

It will make them even madder when they know we enjoy it.

 

R,

[Nate Downes]

Oh well try harder in the future John :D

 

It will make them even madder when they know we enjoy it.

 

R,

 

It's ok, I ticked off a self-declared investment broker on myspace the other day by calling the Red into question.

[Dan Goldberg]

Oh well try harder in the future John :D

 

It will make them even madder when they know we enjoy it.

 

R,

 

tht's the spirit!! :P

 

-----

 

I don't understand why arguments always get out of control over the web? Is it because people find themselves invincible behind their little cyber wall? Or because they can say things that aren't true or oerexaggerate things without conequence?

 

Boggles my mind, and I am annoyed. :angry:

[Guest]

Actually I think all of these times I get mentioned in posts is making me more famous.

 

According to IMDB my "STARmeter" is up 51% since last week!!

 

Now if I can just figure out what the hell a STARmeter is <_<

 

R,

[jan von krogh]

Are you kidding? You are the marketing for RED. Do you honestly not realize that?

 

thank you very much, but i suppose you should rather take david stump ASC or peter jackson into consideration.

 

however, i think its is quite interesting, that some posters here are proud to be called j**ks by dozens of people, as it allows some deeper insights in motivation and social competence these individuals.

[Nate Downes]

thank you very much, but i suppose you should rather take david stump ASC or peter jackson into consideration.

 

however, i think its is quite interesting, that some posters here are proud to be called j**ks by dozens of people, as it allows some deeper insights in motivation and social competence these individuals.

I think what he was trying to say is that Red works by word-of-mouth, that is it's customers for marketing. And it's successful at that, even if I find it highly annoying. I'll admit, can't go to any film forum without running into a Red discussion.

[John Holland]

It has come across as the Mac Donalds of the 4k/2k world , i have never said anything against the project just hate american hard sales techniques , which having been taking over this country for to many years so had enough.

[Joseph Carney]

I rarely post on these types of threads because they are non productive. Yes I'm a Red res holder, no I don't think Film is going anywhere. I love film, the look of film...but for the types of movies I want to make, RED is the better choice. I'm already familiar with an IT centric work flow, so RED is the newest import machine for that and a great one at that. For me it's about not having to pay 1K a day for a CineAlta rental with all the attachment and no need for a tape deck or tape anything..the great picture that RED takes and the affordability are 2 of the deciding factors for me, but I speak only for myself.

 

But...there will be tiimes when only film will do (high speed 240fps capture for instance), and there are certain types of movies that I would only want to shoot in film.

 

At that same thread at reduser you folks are referencing, many of us a trying to tell people that cinematography.com is the place to go to ask questions about lenses and lighting and other 35mm issues.

I'm hoping to be able to ask experienced 35mm camera operators about dof issues, blocking, etc...because I'm having to unlearn 1/3" chip style shooting and relearn film style. I'm excited just to be able to have the chance.

 

 

So, no probs with the film crowd, looking forward to working with you. Hope we can put the past behind us and learn from each other. Because all those things you all have been learning the last 75 years are going to be in even greater demand.

[Guest]

thank you very much, but i suppose you should rather take david stump ASC or peter jackson into consideration.

 

however, i think its is quite interesting, that some posters here are proud to be called j**ks by dozens of people, as it allows some deeper insights in motivation and social competence these individuals.

 

No Jan, you and the others are just good entertainment.

 

R,

[Andrew Ray]

Seems to me that name resolution to the reduser.net is down.

Here is IP address you can use to access it.

http://205.234.134.160/forum/index.php

Life is more interesting with these two user nets up and running.

[Matthew Buick]

If you ask me Richard Boddington and Carl Brighton are giving us a rather bad name.

 

Let us ban their asses. :)

[Guest]

Matthew: Your ass will get banned long before mine does mate!