ARRI VS. PANAVISION

[Cris Moris]

Hey everyone,

 

Quick question. If given a choice hypothetically speaking, say you were shooting a feature. You choose the aspect ratio. What would your prefernce be: Panavision or ARRI? Why?

 

I just worked on a commercial and the AC was constantly ranting about how much he hated working with Panavision. He kept pointing out the advantages of say an ARRI 535 or a 435. I don't remember which Panavision make we were using could have been a Platinum or a G II.

 

Finally what does everyone think of the new ARRI HD camera?

 

Thanks

[Michael Nash]

It comes down to personal preference, as well as service and price. Both manufacturers make excellent cameras and accessories that compete with each other, feature-for-feature.

 

There are some differences where a particular feature might be built into the camera on an Arri, while it's an accessory or option on the Panavision (or vice versa). But these little differences tend to affect the camera assistant more than the DP!

 

This is also a bit of a hypothetical question that leaves out a lot of important real-world variables -- like what lenses do you want (or need), what physical size and weight of the camera do you need, what's your budget, how long do you need it, and so on. Don't forget other cameras like Moviecam an Aaton. Lastly, the service you get from the rental house is important on a project as long as a feature.

 

I'm sure everyone here can chime in with their own personal favorite, but cameras and shoots are so specialized that it's pointless to try to pick ONE camera for everything.

[Cris Moris]

Hey,

 

Yeah I figured the question was to broad. Thanks for your input though.

Does Aaton make 35mm equipment?

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

Yes, the catchily named Aaton 35. "Lost in Translation" used them I believe. Famously good for handheld work. Coaxial magazine. Tricky to load.

 

Phil

[Kevin Zanit]

In a perfect scenario I would choose a Panaflex GII or Millennium, with Primo Anamorphic lenses.

 

If it was high-speed work I would use a PanArri 435.

 

I like Panavision as a company (and for their gear). I like how they don?t nickel and dime you for every accessories or filter.

 

 

 

Kevin Zanit

[Adam Frisch FSF]

Actually not a Coaxial magazine, Phil. It's a so called active displacement type. This is the construction that makes the Aaton 35 a nightmare to load....

 

But the design is quite clever - Arri nicked it for the new lightweight LT mags, I believe.

[David Mullen ASC]

Well, there's nothing quite like an Arri-435 -- which is why Panavision rents them. So it's not a very fair comparison; they don't even make anything remotely like an Arri-435. If you're making commercials, where the 435 is king, you can rent them from Panavision if needed.

 

It would be more apt to compare the standard sync-sound cameras, like an Arricam ST to a Panaflex Millenium, an Arri-535B to a Panaflex Platinum, and maybe an Arri-BL4S to a Panaflex Gold. Although those are more radically evolved Arri's over each generation compared to the Panaflex line-up.

 

At my budget levels, I've been more likely in the past to have had to choose between an Arri-BL4S versus a Panaflex GII, which both have their advantages and disadvantages -- but I prefer the GII, and so does the sound recordist usually.

 

As for AC's, I've worked with ones who preferred Panaflexes and others who preferred Arri. And many people like Panavision as a rental house more than due to the superiority of the cameras. They've always been very generous to me, even when I was a student and even on my first feature.

[John Atala]

There is nothing like the extreme engineering that composes the arri cameras. The German are amazing, like always.

 

p.s. ive never had any trouble with the "active displacement type" to load the Aatons. The XTRprod is the one to blame for Aaton's bad loading fame, it is like a puzzle to load/unload that thing.

 

sorry for lousy english

[Nathan Milford]

Wow. I think the XTR/LTR DX mags are quite easy to load. A minimum of kibbles and bits to move the film through.

 

The 35-III Mags are boggling at first but after a few loads they thread quite naturally.

 

The A-Minima mags are the most truely boggling! I liken it to an intricate tea ceremony.

 

- nate

[Sam Wells]

Wow. I think the XTR/LTR DX mags are quite easy to load. A minimum of kibbles and bits to move the film through.

Ditto. I taught a new to the game loader the LTR in > 10 minutes. I sent her back to the bag on the first one - loop too big - and from then on all was perfect.

 

In an emergency once, I taught someone to load an LTR mag and camera - *over the phone*

 

Really.

 

-Sam

[mattuhry]

Arri vs Panavision? if you live in LA Panavision Hollywood and Woodland Hills can offer you some amazing resources and has fabulous customer service, outside of LA it depends on who the Panavision vendor is and how together they are.

 

When all is said and done no one will be able to tell what camera you used. Unless it is malfunctioning in some way it does not affect the image. It's the lenses.

 

Primo's, Cooke s4's, and Ultraprimes are all excellent lenses. There are some subtle differences but I don't think there is much point in arguing which is sharper at least in the mid range focal lengths.

 

There are 2 places where Panavison lenses rules supreme.

 

1st is the highspeed zooms. the PMZ 14.5 - 50 T2.2 and the SLZ 17-75 T2.3. both perform beautifully and you can think about shooting your whole movie on them. Their dimensions are reasonable too. ( however the 17-75 is not so good for super 35 as it does not cover the corner area very well)

 

2nd is Anamorphic. Panavison has a huge selection of anamorphic lenses and is actively designing and manufactuing more all the time. People like Dan Sasaki and Guy Mc Vicker have lot of practical knowledge about anamorphic optics and they can help you select the right lenses for your project.

 

 

Matt Uhry

DP/LA

www.fuzby.com

[Max Jacoby]

There are 2 places where Panavison lenses rules supreme.

 

1st is the highspeed zooms. the PMZ 14.5 - 50 T2.2 and the SLZ 17-75 T2.3.

I think both the Zeiss T2.2 Variable Primes (which are zoom lenses in fact) and the new 17-80mm T2.2 Optimo deserve some credit as well in this category.

[Mitch Gross]

Honestly,if someone has a problem loading an XTR/LTR style Aaton mag then they'll never be able to load any film mag ever. I question if they would be capable of pumping gas into their car!

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

The only film mag I've ever loaded was an XTR, and I found it an absolute bear.

 

And I don't own a car.

 

So, uh... looks like I'm stuffed!

 

Phil

[Laurent Andrieux]

Panavision are more designed for standard production tha ARRI's. They have a special system inside to keep the "back focus" (I dont know how to say tirage optique in english, sorry) whatever position the camera is, better than ARRIs.

 

I think that ARRIs are much easier to use for the assistant, though some ACs are so used to Pana cameras that they don't like working with Arri's.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

I'm still trying to remember the last time I worked a job where my opinion of the kit mattered in the slightest!

 

Phil

[Mike Panczenko]

I've only been Camera PA with a Panavision, but the great thing about them is the large lenses that space out the focus marks. You pull focus easily compared to the Zeiss and Angenieux. Most of my experience has been Arri, but I like the fact that with Panavisions you don't have to engage the sprocket. A 1st I know said when the film feels like it goes through "a velvet roller". When I dummy loaded one, I agreed wholeheartedly. But, with so many cameras 9P, I think it would have been a better move for the mages to be that, instead of 99. I think there should be some sort of standardization. But Panavisions, to me, have their greatest asset in their glass and viewing system. The lenses can be mounted on Arris, Moviecams, the Aaton 35, etc., though, but The Millenium XL is the closest thing to optically perfect the industry currently has. The viewing system is its best feature.

[Sam Wells]

But, with so many cameras 9P, I think it would have been a better move for the mages to be that, instead of 99.

??

 

-Sam

[Mike Panczenko]

Sam,

 

They're loading terms. I'm sure you know what they are, just never heard the term. It's kind of hard to explain without a picture, but here goes:

 

When you place the roll in the mag, it comes off in the shape of a 9. After you put it engage the sprockets, or just roll it through like on the Panavisions, you put it back inside. On most cameras- Arri, Moviecam, etc.- you put it back into the core so that it looks like a P. On Panavisions, however, you put it in the core so that it looks like a 9. It was a minor qualm, but so many things are unstandarized, and I have always thought this should be. There is a Moviecam loading diagram at this site: http://www.rabharling.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk . See how it comes off in the shape of a 9 and takes up in the shape of a P? Hope that this explains it.

[Sam Wells]

O, IC. I just think of as takes up EI or EO. OK.

 

-73

 

-S

[John Sprung]

To look at it another way, the film comes wound emulsion in. "9P" results in the exposed film rolled emulsion in, "99" leaves it emulsion out. Emulsion out serves as a double check against accidentally loading exposed film and ruining everything. That was more of an advantage in the early days of home movies, among pros anyone sloppy enough to have made that mistake would have washed out long before getting to work on a feature.

 

 

 

-- J.S.

[Sam Wells]

Yes I know all this, just didn't encounter those terms, I grew up on the wrong side of the tracks with old Mitchells and Buick ragtops, odometers turned over at 99,999 miles.

 

Anyway if this wasn't the 35mm Only forum I'd ask how you'd symbolize A-minima loading in alpha-numeric terms :blink: :D

 

-Sam

[Nathan Milford]

Perhaps an eight on it's side (infinty symbol)?

 

- nate

[Laurent Andrieux]

it could either be : ###

[Giovanni Speranza]

If i compare films made with Arri and Panavision, i would choose Arri.