What are the uses of black silk?

[Tim O'Connor]

I've been around for a while but have never used black silk and wonder how

it is used and what it does in both overheads and mounted from c-stands.

 

 

Thanks!

[Kevin Zanit]

I don't have a clue what you would use a small black silk flag for. I do know (and have played with) black silk in the form of large overheads. Conrad Hall used to use them on day EXT with his thinking that it was a better way to control contrast, and I agree with him. The logic is that white silk (or anything else white overhead) not only softens the light, but also lowers the contrast more because you get light "bounce back" from the actual overhead material. Black silk doesn't have that problem.

 

The main reason I have never used it much is that you loose so much light through it that I usually can't light up the foreground enough to balance to the background.

 

Kevin Zanit

[Jonathan Bowerbank]

I'm interested in trying it out sometime, but I generally use scrim when I'm wanting to cut the light down while preserving contrast :)

[Kevin Zanit]

Well it also softens the light, a scrim does not.

[Tim O'Connor]

Thanks, guys. That makes a lot of sense about the white overheads bouncing light around

and affecting contrast. I wonder if there is a less dense black material that could diffuse

without cutting as much.

 

I was looking at a rental house catalogue and apparently they have some black silk in some of

their flag kits but other than for an overhead I don't see how it would be used either.

[Josh Fritts]

Its also good if you need to soften light around lots of reflective services and do not want to see a large white frame reflected in that surface. But, the down side is they are very thick and eat up a lot of light. I have one in a 4x4, 2x3 and 18x24, but it rarely sees the light of day and is almost more of novelty on my truck.

[Tim O'Connor]

Its also good if you need to soften light around lots of reflective services and do not want to see a large white frame reflected in that surface. But, the down side is they are very thick and eat up a lot of light. I have one in a 4x4, 2x3 and 18x24, but it rarely sees the light of day and is almost more of novelty on my truck.

 

I like that ability to hide the big white frame reflection. I wonder why silk is so important. There must

be some material that can diffuse well, maybe not quite as softly but without cutting so much light.

[Sebastian Andexer]

Thanks, guys. That makes a lot of sense about the white overheads bouncing light around

and affecting contrast. I wonder if there is a less dense black material that could diffuse

without cutting as much.

 

I was looking at a rental house catalogue and apparently they have some black silk in some of

their flag kits but other than for an overhead I don't see how it would be used either.

 

 

Call youre rental house. They never have all their inventory in a catalog (trust me, i use to and still do from time to time, work in a rental house). That being said, take a look a 1/4 black silk. I prefer it over a reg. black silk because it can be a bit too heavy.

[Richard Andrewski]

Thanks, guys. That makes a lot of sense about the white overheads bouncing light around

and affecting contrast. I wonder if there is a less dense black material that could diffuse

without cutting as much.

 

I was looking at a rental house catalogue and apparently they have some black silk in some of

their flag kits but other than for an overhead I don't see how it would be used either.

 

You might try black gauze as a "less dense black material." I haven't used it myself but it comes highly recommended by someone else I know for this kind of use. Perhaps it won't be dense enough for you though.

 

http://www.rosebrand.com/subcategory159/fa...type-gauze.aspx

Edited July 21, 2007 by Richard Andrewski

[Sebastian Andexer]

You might try black gauze as a "less dense black material." I haven't used it myself but it comes highly recommended by someone else I know for this kind of use. Perhaps it won't be dense enough for you though.

 

http://www.rosebrand.com/subcategory159/fa...type-gauze.aspx

 

Why not just use nets? If a single is too heavy then use a white net.

[Tim O'Connor]

Thanks guys, I'm going to check those suggestions out! Have to wait for the rental house though;

they're gone for the weekend.

[Richard Andrewski]

Yes that would probably work too. Maybe just a little less dense than the gauze so let's more light through.

 

http://www.rosebrand.com/subcategory158/fa...pe-netting.aspx

 

I was looking at some other fabrics on the site. Some of the fabrics under the "sheer" category looked interesting. This "organza" might work:

 

http://www.rosebrand.com/product607/48-Pol...&info=Sheer

 

or this "shimmer voile" says it can be translucent and even transparent under some lighting:

 

http://www.rosebrand.com/product1214/118-S...&info=Sheer

 

really lots of different kinds of things to experiment with and see what works best for what you want.

[Kevin Zanit]

Because a net does not really diffuse the light, just cuts it down in intensity.

[Sebastian Andexer]

I know what a net and silk do but the link he posted showed something that would do the same thing as a net would.

[Richard Andrewski]

Yes its true, gauze and netting won't cut much light at all. I hear that the effect is very subtle indeed. The only reason I posted that is he was asking for something not quite so opaque as black silk. The other ones I posted may also be too subtle in effect, you'd just have to try them.

Edited July 21, 2007 by Richard Andrewski

[robert duke]

Silk is a kind of funny diffusion material. It difuses but still allows light to go straight through. So you get less contrast but keep your sourcey light to some degree. the black silk is nice because it does diffuse, stop down the source, and allows the light to be sourcey. If that is what you are wanting. you can also go 1/8 silk and throw a single net on it as well.

[Tony Brown]

Interesting. I bought a 1/4 black silk 12x12 a few years ago thinking it would be really useful as an overhead. Its hideous. Its just like an ND3. I've yet to try the behind camera eye light for a crowd theory.....

 

Overheads are always a problem. White nets DO diffuse and are very useful but still let that horrible hard noon sunlight through. I prefer to use a solid lack as high as possible (20') so that ambient skylight leaks in but the direct is kept off, then bounce the sun in from a lower angle.

 

Great when there's no wind.

[Tim O'Connor]

Interesting. I bought a 1/4 black silk 12x12 a few years ago thinking it would be really useful as an overhead. Its hideous. Its just like an ND3. I've yet to try the behind camera eye light for a crowd theory.....

 

Overheads are always a problem. White nets DO diffuse and are very useful but still let that horrible hard noon sunlight through. I prefer to use a solid lack as high as possible (20') so that ambient skylight leaks in but the direct is kept off, then bounce the sun in from a lower angle.

 

Great when there's no wind.

 

 

Thanks guys for all the info..

 

Tony, what is "the behind camera eye light for a crowd theory" ?

 

Off-topic (on my own thread!) but somewhat related, I made out well last week when I needed a

big scrim/net for one side of a practical location while shooting a student film by unrolling some

black screening material that I had bought cheaply and hanging it from a cellar pipe. (The black

may have irrelevant in this case; the screen was simply acting as a scrim because of the lack of

grip equipment. Actually however, it was easier to maneuver in tight quarters than a large net

might have been and ironically, due to the black color I think, I heard some whispering that the

D.P. was using "some special Hollywood" stuff.)

[Tony Brown]

I heard some whispering that the D.P. was using "some special Hollywood" stuff.)

 

So put in a 'special Hollywood' invoice for it.....

 

 

 

Tony, what is "the behind camera eye light for a crowd theory" ?

 

You can back off a bigger unit (say a T12 or a 6k) maybe 20' behind camera thru a 12x12 1/4 black silk. Its reduced enough not to fill the set but the source is still intense enough to pick up in peoples eyes...... not convinced but I'll take a look sometime. For the moment black silks are emperors clothes to me...

[Tim O'Connor]

So put in a 'special Hollywood' invoice for it.....

You can back off a bigger unit (say a T12 or a 6k) maybe 20' behind camera thru a 12x12 1/4 black silk. Its reduced enough not to fill the set but the source is still intense enough to pick up in peoples eyes...... not convinced but I'll take a look sometime. For the moment black silks are emperors clothes to me...

 

 

Yes, $$$

 

 

I've put a large white frame up high at night and lighted it so that people's eyes catch it when they look

up a bit but nothing like what you describe which sounds pretty cool. That might put a nice glint

in people's eyes without the reflection of the large white shape. Thanks.

[Lisa Wiegand]

Sorry to jump in so late. My favorite and only use for black silks right now is as overheads on daytime process trailer work. When I've used a solid overhead, it cuts out too much light and looks too fake because it cuts out too much reflection --- but using a white silk reflects the big white overhead in the windshield. So the black silk is a perfect compromise for me. You just have to make sure you don't have a seam running down the middle of the silk and reflecting in your shot.

 

Lisa