Has the witer's strike affected you yet?

[Brad Grimmett]

I'm pretty new to this and as the DP I should probably have been leading the campaign for better conditions

I've been that guy before. 5 or 6 years ago I was on a (non union) show where the producers continually sent us hours into meal penalty and changed our time cards after we had signed them. I tried to rally the crew together to stand up to them, but when it came time to take a stand I was left blowing in the wind by the rest of the crew, and as a result of that I wasn't asked back for the next season. Of course everyone else was, and I would speak to some of them occasionally and get to hear about how much worse the conditions were than when I was there. All I could think was, "You had your chance to stand up to them, and you didn't."

It's a tricky situation and it can cost you your job. Of course, I no longer wanted that job if that was how I was going to be treated.

[Annie Wengenroth]

Actually I think Matt made a good point and it's something I never really thought about and have probably taken for granted many times...but if on the non-union jobs, we didn't have people standing up to production saying, "This is how it's done on a union shoot", I think I'd STILL be running around outside on some random low-budget job long after 10 hours....in the East Village, most likely...with no second meal... :lol:

 

Now you guys have me all interested in union history. I am going to do some more homework on this.

[Phil Rhodes]

> I'd STILL be running around outside on some random low-budget job long after 10 hours....in the East Village, most likely...with no second meal...

 

The point is, Annie, that most of the rest of us are doing exactly that, and your union does nothing.

[robert duke]

The point is, Annie, that most of the rest of us are doing exactly that, and your union does nothing.

 

So stand up and say something. The union will get involved if you ask them to. If you feel you are being mistreated, call the union even if you are non union.

 

Also you have the ability to say no to a project. you have the ability to call the NLRB ( national labor relations board) much like OSHA it deals with worker rights and labor laws. you have the ability to pull the producer aside and discuss the issues with them. I have found that when called out on issues producers will usually try to address the problems. It is up to YOU to allow yourself to be mistreated.

 

You dont have to take the jobs from producers who habitually abuse you. you have choices.

[Guest]

".in the East Village, most likely...with no second meal..."

 

This is one of the more bizarre traditions of the film industry, why do film workers expect, and get free food on set?

 

I mean tens of millions of Americans go to work every day, their companies do NOT pay for their lunches. Employees buy their own food, or bring it from home. Yes, even at heavily unionized auto plants in the USA, the workers do not get free food.

 

Large employers have these things called, "cafeterias", the workers BUY the food on site with their OWN money, yes you heard me right with their OWN money.

 

I worked at a US corporation for two years, total number of times they brought in free lunches, zero. I worked at three Canadian TV networks over 6.5 years, I had a free lunch once in the those 6.5 years.

 

Really....it's quite odd, why don't film workers buy their own food like well, the rest of the entire planet!

 

Some one once told me it's so producers can keep track of the crew so they don't wonder off during lunch and come back late. Good grief, if this is the problem how does it work in other industries?

 

The other thing that blows me away is how film workers often expect mileage to and from the set. I mean, good grief again! How many millions of American commuters are being paid travel time by their employers? Do even workers at GM get paid for driving to the plant if they have to commute for two hours each day?

 

I shot my film an hour north of Toronto, at least 50% of the applicants for crew positions asked how much I would pay for mileage to drive an hour north each day and back. That just blew me away that people could even ask such a thing! I commuted IN TO Toronto every day for years, and never received one penny in travel costs.

 

I did make sure that every one had free parking once they arrived at the shoot location. Again, this is a luxury that no one outside of the film industry would get. When I commuted to work I had to park my car at the train station and PAY for my parking, so did tens of thousands of other commuters parked in the same lot.

 

I really think film workers need to wake up and realize that they have it very good indeed.

 

R,

[Francesco Bonomo]

I mean tens of millions of Americans go to work every day, their companies do NOT pay for their lunches. Employees buy their own food, or bring it from home. Yes, even at heavily unionized auto plants in the USA, the workers do not get free food.

 

they are also less likely to become unemployed after a few weeks of working, while that's a routine for us.

Sure, we chose it so we shouldn't complain about it, but sometimes working conditions are truly miserable. How many people (not working in the filmmaking business) do you know who are fighting to have a 12-hour working day?

 

I really think film workers need to wake up and realize that they have it very good indeed.

 

sure. last year I worked for ten months on a (italian) tv series for less than 100$ a week, and the production provided us with one meal only for the 4 months of location work, and overtime was not paid except to the electric department and grips.

 

I feel priviledged to work in this business and I love it, but I can also see its limits, and there are things which are worth fighting for: I wouldn't ask why we demand meals, I'd rather ask why people in other businesses don't.

 

I don't think we should say "no" all the time, but it only takes a wrong "yes" to screw it all for a long time.

[Brian Dzyak]

".in the East Village, most likely...with no second meal..."

 

This is one of the more bizarre traditions of the film industry, why do film workers expect, and get free food on set?

 

I mean tens of millions of Americans go to work every day, their companies do NOT pay for their lunches. Employees buy their own food, or bring it from home. Yes, even at heavily unionized auto plants in the USA, the workers do not get free food.

 

Large employers have these things called, "cafeterias", the workers BUY the food on site with their OWN money, yes you heard me right with their OWN money.

 

I worked at a US corporation for two years, total number of times they brought in free lunches, zero. I worked at three Canadian TV networks over 6.5 years, I had a free lunch once in the those 6.5 years.

 

Really....it's quite odd, why don't film workers buy their own food like well, the rest of the entire planet!

 

Some one once told me it's so producers can keep track of the crew so they don't wonder off during lunch and come back late. Good grief, if this is the problem how does it work in other industries?

 

The other thing that blows me away is how film workers often expect mileage to and from the set. I mean, good grief again! How many millions of American commuters are being paid travel time by their employers? Do even workers at GM get paid for driving to the plant if they have to commute for two hours each day?

 

I shot my film an hour north of Toronto, at least 50% of the applicants for crew positions asked how much I would pay for mileage to drive an hour north each day and back. That just blew me away that people could even ask such a thing! I commuted IN TO Toronto every day for years, and never received one penny in travel costs.

 

I did make sure that every one had free parking once they arrived at the shoot location. Again, this is a luxury that no one outside of the film industry would get. When I commuted to work I had to park my car at the train station and PAY for my parking, so did tens of thousands of other commuters parked in the same lot.

 

I really think film workers need to wake up and realize that they have it very good indeed.

 

R,

 

There are some generalizations in there that should be addressed. There isn't always free food. In the example of a episodic television show shot on a studio lot, there often is access to a cafeteria so the crew will be "broken" for an hour instead of the standard half. One of the reasons we have "free food" is because our "office" is generally on location where there may or may not be access to lunch facilities. The title Parking Lots I've Eaten In, by Owen Marsh SOC pretty much sums up the "glamor" film crews tend to experience. The "free food" is more of a practical necessity than a perk, but yes, it is also a perk relative to other industries.

 

As far as mileage goes, again, in most cases, crews do not get a mileage allotment. The exception is when the location is outside the "Studio Zone" which is 40 miles (or 50?) in any direction from the established center of production. An hour long drive or more may be acceptable for careers in which the standard working hours are 9-5, but as discussed thoroughly, the standard production day for film and television is at least 12 and more often closer to 14 or 16...then you add the commute to that. Again, it's a matter of practicality to encourage Producers to drive production vans full of crew to a distant location and/or house them when it is distant rather than ask 100+ crew to drive excessive distances before and after working very long days. It can and has resulted in death. This isn't a perk. It's a very real issue of safety.

 

The only other time a crew "asks" for mileage is when they are asked to use their personal vehicles to transport company equipment. It happens more often in the non-union environment, like I currently spend most of my time with. I am expected to drive to the production house/vendor, pack my own vehicle with their equipment, drive to the location then drive back to unload it all. From the moment I put anything of theirs (owned or rented) my personal vehicle now becomes an official rented piece of gear, just like a camera or Steadicam or lights or anything else a crewmember might provide for the production. That's why mileage or a vehicle allowance is asked for.

 

 

These aren't all perks even if they seem like it relative to other industries. We have very long days in various locations in all conditions often moving from "days" to "nights" in a matter of hours. We aren't sitting in a cushy office with access to the nearby mall with a food court and going home in time for dinner with the wife and kids. To compare what the film/television industry is with just about any other career choice misrepresents the uniqueness of what we do.

[David Mullen ASC]

I've never asked for nor gotten milage. It's not as common as you seem to be suggesting. But I also expect the locations to be no more than an hour's drive away otherwise the production should be providing lodging. It's not safe to work 12 to 14 hours on average, and sometimes longer, and add three hours of commuting on top of that.

 

As for meals, most offices don't stop dead when some workers come back late from lunch, or if it does, it's not costing a lot of money. Losing time on a film shoot because some crew member or actor comes back late from lunch can be financially disasterous, especially on expensive locations where you have to get all the shots done in a limited time. So saving money on meals by telling actors and crew to go find their own food after working six hours straight is a recipe for disaster. Try it yourself Richard on your next movie shoot -- you'll be pulling your hair out and wishing you had just made a deal with a caterer because in the long run, you would have saved money. Imagine dozens of people getting into their cars, driving around looking for lunch, hopefully getting their food fast, hopefully not getting stuck in traffic on the way back. I guarantee when call time after lunch happens, some key person will be missing on set. Every day. Do you really want to go around firing a quarter of your crew daily and rehiring every day to punish people for lateness? Or lose that shooting time?

 

Think of a film set as a ship at sea. That crew can't exactly step off and find a quick meal easily either.

 

Also, movie shoots work odd hours. Our "lunch" can be at 10pm, or even midnight. And we're not always shooting in locations with easy or safe access to food.

 

Plus the meal break is an important time for cast and crew to bond, become a unit -- during most of the shoot, we don't run into each other or can't chat. During a feature shoot, I can sit down and have a meal with the actors one day, the sound crew another, my own crews another, and get to know them.

 

Besides, if you are a believer in the free market system, it cuts both ways for both workers and management -- you can say "low wages, no meals, no milage, no whatever..." and some other producer offering a better deal may get to hire the people you wanted to hire, and the people willing to take your deal may not be the people you wanted to hire. And many times, standardized wages and working conditions saves the producer a lot of one-on-one negotiating.

 

Actually, I don't think this is a bad industry to work for, not at all. Once I started working on union shoots. Before that, when I was making $20,000 a year shooting three features a year, for a decade, with no savings possible, and relying on my wife to provide health benefits, IT SUCKED. I put up with it because there was the chance that someday I would move up, and because I like making movies. And because I was young and willing to put up with abuse. And because I don't have children to provide for.

 

My general philosophy is that what I do is highly skilled labor, and if I work the average number of hours per year that someone in my professional can reasonably hope to work, being freelance, than I should be making a middle-class income for my location after putting in a reasonable number of years establishing my career.

[Guest]

"The exception is when the location is outside the "Studio Zone" which is 40 miles (or 50?) in any direction from the established center of production. An hour long drive or more may be acceptable for careers in which the standard working hours are 9-5, but as discussed thoroughly, the standard production day for film and television is at least 12 and more often closer to 14 or 16...then you add the commute to that."

 

Ahhhh, but there are lots of people, outside of the film biz, that put in 12-14 hours a day at the office and then commute more than one hour home. And receive no mileage compensation from their employers. Examples would be ER doctors, corporate lawyers, nurses, currency traders, to name a few.

 

Again, if I was crew on a shoot being done in Toronto, there is no way in hell I would get put up in a hotel or get a penny in mileage compensation for driving 1.5 hours IN to the city each day. Why should it work the other way?

 

"The only other time a crew "asks" for mileage is when they are asked to use their personal vehicles to transport company equipment."

 

That's an obvious when it's on company time.

 

"To compare what the film/television industry is with just about any other career choice misrepresents the uniqueness of what we do."

 

Sorry but we are not "special" in any way. The world would get along fine without our industry, it's pure fluff.

 

"Losing time on a film shoot because some crew member or actor comes back late from lunch can be financially disasterous, especially on expensive locations where you have to get all the shots done in a limited time. So saving money on meals by telling actors and crew to go find their own food after working six hours straight is a recipe for disaster. Try it yourself Richard on your next movie shoot -- you'll be pulling your hair out and wishing you had just made a deal with a caterer because in the long run, you would have saved money."

 

Yes, but this was my point earlier David, actors and crew should NOT come back late from lunch. It's a job like any other. I worked in a plant to save money for university, the workers where expected to be at their stations at exactly 9am. Lunch was exactly 12pm, and every one was back at their stations for 12:30pm. People who did comply received a warning from management, if they did not respond to the warnings, they got fired. Simple.

 

In the world outside of film and TV this is actually normal. Taking the attitude that I'll come back to work when I feel like it is not acceptable.

 

If the location is remote, people can bring their own lunches to eat on set. Millions of other people do this. If the crew will be in the desert for 5 weeks that would be an exception. Sack lunch on set....no need to leave the set, easy.

 

On a remote location outside of the city you ask one of those meals on wheels trucks to come by, like they do on construction sites all over the USA and Canada. The workers then go out and buy their own food with their own money, like they do all across North America.

 

R,

[Bruce Greene]

".in the East Village, most likely...with no second meal..."

 

Large employers have these things called, "cafeterias", the workers BUY the food on site with their OWN money, yes you heard me right with their OWN money.

 

The other thing that blows me away is how film workers often expect mileage to and from the set. I mean, good grief again! How many millions of American commuters are being paid travel time by their employers? Do even workers at GM get paid for driving to the plant if they have to commute for two hours each day?

 

R,

 

It's not quite like that...

 

Free food is only a requirement when working on location. When you work at the "factory" i.e. the studio, free food is not required and lunch means going to the commissary (cafeteria) and paying with your own money.

 

Also no milage is paid when working at the studio as well. The producer always has the option of having the workers report to the "factory" and busing them to location if they choose. They often choose not to because it is less expensive to pay the milage and start the time clock at location instead of the studio. Milage is calculated from the studio, or production office, not your home. It can be quite small.

 

Catered lunch is provided because there is no other place available to get lunch when on location or when shooting during unusual hours at the studio when the cafeteria is closed. The studio always wants the crew to spend their money in the commisarry whenever possible.

 

And lastly, meal breaks and other work breaks are required less often under the union contract than under California labor law. (collective bargining agreements are allowed to waive these provisions) I belive California law requires for hourly workers a 10 minute break between 5 hour periods between meal breaks as well. California law also requires 1.5x pay after 8 hours in a day and 2x pay after 12 hours in a day. A non-union production should be, legally speaking in California, having coffee breaks and a meal break after 5 hours of work. I have yet to see that happen on a movie, but I'm sure it happens in almost ever other industry in California and other states (as required by federal law).

 

And one more thing...the union often negotiates lower rates for small produtions. A few years ago I was offered a job on such a film that paid key positions (operator, gaffer, key grip, sound mixer) $12/hour. I turned down that offer to shoot a picture that never started production. The $12/hour movie was nominated for a best picture oscar. I was such an idiot ;)

 

-bruce

[Saul Rodgar]

My opinion of unions is already on the record so I'll keep this brief.

 

If you are in local 600, you are a member of a premier club, the gold-card fraternity, you have the best pay, most regular employment and most excessively generous conditions of any film crew anywhere in the world and you have absolutely no right to complain about anything.

 

How would you know that? Have you ever worked 14 to 18 hrs a day with one hour commute each way alongside an IA 600 (lowly) camera assistant, while being yelled, "camera moves," "camera reloads," moving twenty or so 75 pound boxes every short while in anything from 120 to -20 degree weather for months on end? Have you lost your mind? How can you be so condescending and cynical to brag how much you know about something you know absolutely NOTHING about? Your American feature film making experience probably amounts to what you see in TV/DVD "behind the scenes" featurettes while comfortably sitting on your plush chair at your warm house far, far away from where we bust our asses so that you can be entertained.

 

Until you acquire FIRST HAND experience of what it is to work in the USA under those conditions for very long periods of time, please stop peddling your sour grapes on how how complacent and decadent us American feature film working people have become.

 

Thank you.

Edited December 21, 2007 by saulie rodgar

[John Sprung]

We even get free food in post production. Many years ago, Emory Cohen figured out that it was cheaper to staff and license a kitchen and feed his clients and staff, rather than have the bays sit idle while everybody went out to eat. Today, the big places have their own kitchens, the small ones have deals with local restaurants, and send runners to get food.

 

 

 

 

-- J.S.

[David Mullen ASC]

Ahhhh, but there are lots of people, outside of the film biz, that put in 12-14 hours a day at the office and then commute more than one hour home. And receive no mileage compensation from their employers. Examples would be ER doctors, corporate lawyers, nurses, currency traders, to name a few.

 

Yes, and I'm sure that in those industries, there are no complaints at all, especially from ER workers -- they are SO content.

 

Why are inhuman working conditions acceptable? How much of a home life does this person who works 14 hours and then commutes an hour each way, all year round, have? How happy is that household?

 

I don't see why fighting for better working conditions is such a crime.

 

As for the meal thing, it's about efficiency. People wandering off to get their own meals is not efficient except in a controlled environment like a studio with a commissary. You think producers haven't tried all the ideas you are proposing Richard??? How do you think the present system developed? We started this industry with people brown-bagging it, having unregulated hours, etc. That lasted for about a decade. You can turn the clock back to 1920 all over again if you want, but I can bet you that we'll have the same labor unrest of the 1930's all over again too. So what's the point? Why go through these cycles over and over again? Why not recognize that there are good reasons for reasonable working conditions.

 

Film work is very hard and the hours are long, and they are not always in air-conditioned rooms. If after all that, you want to play Uncle Scrooge and deny these workers any perks that may make them less grumpy, then do so at your own risk.

 

I suspect that if producers eliminated meals, then workers would rightly say -- fine, we want to work 8 hour days like the majority of people, if you want to treat us like any other office worker. If film productions really want to create the same environment as your typical office job, with 15 minute breaks every couple of hours, clocking out for lunch for an hour, going home after 8 hours, then fine -- I'd be happy to buy my own meal. No problem.

 

But film work isn't like that and keeping hard-working people happy is part of a producer's job, any good producer that is. If you want to be the type of producer who tells crews working 14 hours on a hot set to "suck it up -- I'm don't have any pity for you" then you can imagine the type of reputation you are going to develop. If you are the type of producer who occasionally brings in an expresso cart, or a nice meal, or nice snacks now and then and says "you guys are working hard, you deserve this" you will also develop a certain reputation, as someone who appreciates his crew. It's up to you.

 

Like I said, it's a free market -- you're doing a non-union movie, so go ahead, don't feed anyone. That's your call. Maybe you'll get some film students and people otherwise generally unhirable to accept those conditions. Or maybe you'll just have to deal with all your good people quitting to take the occasional commercial or better feature after the first week. Or maybe you'll get lucky and make your movie during an economic downturn when everyone is desperate. The thing is that "perks" are not unheard of in many industries, especially competitive ones. Some of these IT companies in Silicon Valley have incredible perks for their workers, including catered lunches. Sure, they could also take the attitude "we don't have to provide any perks" and see talented workers slide over to the companies that do.

 

I don't understand people whose goal in life is to make working conditions less good to save money, after decades of struggle by workers to make conditions better. What sort of life goal is that? "I want people to work harder for less money in worse working conditions so I can make more money and live a better life." I mean, I know such people exist... but they are a mystery to me. It's like getting on top by pushing other people down.

 

We've come to some weird point where believing in the notion of the maximum good for the maximum number is considered a vice and the notion of "every man for himself -- I got mine, screw you" is considered a virture.

[Walter Graff]

I don't understand people whose goal in life is to make working conditions less good to save money, after decades of struggle by workers to make conditions better. What sort of life goal is that?

 

And to think this is often becoming the norm these days in many areas of production as I talk to people all over the US. Of course this brings up the old independent contractor vs employee discussion which few really understand. And since most who hire, illegally classify their workers as independent contractors, a smart person who got screwed can get a company in lots of trouble. If most of you knew that technically most positions in this business classify you as an employee of the company you work for (even union positions) whether you work a day, or an hour, you might find new ammunition to do something about your rights. :unsure:

[Saul Rodgar]

We've come to some weird point where believing in the notion of the maximum good for the maximum number is considered a vice and the notion of "every man for himself -- I got mine, screw you" is considered a virture.

 

 

Amen, brother!

[David Mullen ASC]

To play devil's advocate, Richard is right that film workers get certain perks over other workers in other industries. He's just conveniently ignoring the conditions we work in that are worse than many other industries (or he conveniently sites other bad working conditions like in ER rooms, as if they made them less bad).

 

Catered meals is one of those perks, but as I was pointing out, whether or not the ideal is some situation where workers clocked in on the minute back from lunch, it doesn't work that way. It doesn't even work that way in most office jobs.

 

It's just that the ramifications of someone being late from lunch are more severe for a film shoot, so catering lunch on site and the 2nd AD hitting the stop watch the moment the last person in line gets their food is one way for producers to control things on the set to eliminate variables that could cost them time later.

 

If this location costs $10,000/day, they are not going to want to come back the next day to pick-up shots because half the crew who drove off set to get a meal got stuck at a train crossing coming back. And playing the "whose fault was it that you were late coming back from lunch?" game is just crying over spilled milk at that point. Firing the crew for being late doesn't make up for the fact that you missed an important shot. And I don't buy the notion that the work ethics of workers in other industries is better on average. I've worked in an office job for four years and I saw all types of work ethics. My wife reports the same from her jobs. You can't plan anything around the notion of getting 100% efficiency from your workers.

[Brian Dzyak]

And to think this is often becoming the norm these days in many areas of production as I talk to people all over the US. Of course this brings up the old independent contractor vs employee discussion which few really understand. And since most who hire, illegally classify their workers as independent contractors, a smart person who got screwed can get a company in lots of trouble. If most of you knew that technically most positions in this business classify you as an employee of the company you work for (even union positions) whether you work a day, or an hour, you might find new ammunition to do something about your rights. :unsure:

 

Exactly. There are tax ramifications as well. When I was working on features, my income was about 80% payroll and 20% 1099. Now that I'm shooting unrepresented EPK on sets, my income is 100% 1099 which means I am employed only by myself and pay estimated taxes all year long. I must also cut my own deal for every job and watch out for my own "protection" as there is no union backing me up.

 

I get by, but it shouldn't be that way, particularly when the studios have a backdoor "requirement" that EPK cameramen hold Local 600 cards. The way to fix this is to have camera crews and Unit Publicists report to the Local office everytime an EPK crew shows up on set, even if and especially if it one of those "everyday" guys. But for now, it is a relative free-for-all where rates vary as young kids undercut the going rate just for the chance to "work in the movies."

[Guest]

" If you are the type of producer who occasionally brings in an expresso cart, or a nice meal, or nice snacks now and then and says "you guys are working hard, you deserve this" you will also develop a certain reputation, as someone who appreciates his crew."

 

Oh well I'm sure many members of the WGA received all this and they still went on strike. There is just no pleasing some people. :D

 

Yes, I had catered meals and craft services on my last shoot. And yes, I will have the same again on the next shoot. It's not that I want to screw any body. As I already pointed out in another thread I didn't negotiate down any one's day rate on my last shoot, not even by $1.00.

 

But.....I've been on the other end of things to an extent like few others on this board have. Meaning I've been the employer on basically every project I've worked on, where as most people here have been only the employees. When you become the employer you see things from a whole new perspective. And no, I don't have any desire to become an "employee."

 

Do I think it's idiotic that people would request mileage to drive to my location, when I would get nothing if I drove to Toronto, yes I do. And my opinion on that will never change. It's just one of those ass backward situations I will have to learn to live with. Along with many others.

 

R,

[Brian Dzyak]

It's just that the ramifications of someone being late from lunch are more severe for a film shoot, so catering lunch on site and the 2nd AD hitting the stop watch the moment the last person in line gets their food is one way for producers to control things on the set to eliminate variables that could cost them time later.

 

If this location costs $10,000/day, they are not going to want to come back the next day to pick-up shots because half the crew who drove off set to get a meal got stuck at a train crossing coming back. And playing the "whose fault was it that you were late coming back from lunch?" game is just crying over spilled milk at that point. Firing the crew for being late doesn't make up for the fact that you missed an important shot. And I don't buy the notion that the work ethics of workers in other industries is better on average. I've worked in an office job for four years and I saw all types of work ethics. My wife reports the same from her jobs. You can't plan anything around the notion of getting 100% efficiency from your workers.

 

It really is a simple issue of math. A somewhat easier example is in the world of press junkets. For large tentpole movies, an A-Actor/Actress may have to sit in a hotel room to do upwards of 75 interviews in one day. These are simply "get em in, get em out" situations where the Camera Operators are popping tapes in and out of the cameras faster than the "reporters" can switch out seats. The important part here is that on such a large day, if just 60 seconds is "wasted" between "reporters," that adds up to over an hour of additional overtime to pay 2 Camera Operators/1 Audio Tech/1 Room Producer/Other crew per X number of rooms. It adds up fast.

 

Put that into feature film/television terms, we get into the "Gone With the Wind in the morning - Dukes of Hazzard at night" scenario where it's all fun and games until the Director and Producer realize that they aren't going to get all of the shots they need. They then have to decide whether to extend the day and pay the OT or cut shots and impact the quality of the product. That is if they have the choice to extend the day at all. And maybe they can't return the next day for scheduling reasons.

 

Add to that the reality that human-beings aren't as productive as they get tired and the most unproductive part of the working day is also the most expensive. The logic in production scheduling/budgeting is practically non-existent! :blink:

 

The problem is that the system is set up (in most cases) where there is a Producer with a budget goal attempting to treat human-beings as if they are simply "machinery" that never gets tired, always works perfectly when the button is turned on, and are always available without complaint at all times of the day or night. Maybe one day all the jobs on a movie set can be done by robots, but for now, it does take human beings who are interested in doing the best job possible while also having the most fulfilling life as possible.

[Saul Rodgar]

" If you are the type of producer who occasionally brings in an expresso cart, or a nice meal, or nice snacks now and then and says "you guys are working hard, you deserve this" you will also develop a certain reputation, as someone who appreciates his crew."

 

Oh well I'm sure many members of the WGA received all this and they still went on strike. There is just no pleasing some people. :D

 

 

R,

 

 

Do you even understand why the writers are striking? It is not funny, you know?

[John Sprung]

Bottom line, any contract is a list of things that A will do for B or give to B, in exchange for another list of things that B will give to A, or do for A.

 

Are catered meals on your list? Is mileage on your list? They're points to discuss when you make your contract. Just like when you make a contract with McDonald's, and their representative raises the classic question, "Do you want fries with that?"

 

 

 

-- J.S.

[David Mullen ASC]

It's not just expensive locations -- as Brian suggests, you've got some actors making $10,000/hr, so there are few things scarier for a producer than to see his whole crew disperse and promise to be back in half an hour on the dot. At that point, some producers are willing to pay for anything that shaves a minute here or there, or guarantees that more work will get done in less time, etc. The studio doesn't want to here from the producer that they saved a $1000 here on a meal for the crew that day but lost $10,000 worth of the actor's time because their hair stylist got a flat tire on the way back from lunch. Which could still happen, but the producer at least gave the stylist an incentive to stay on the set by providing a meal.

 

As for providing milage because some crew person wants to commute everyday from Quebec to a production based in Toronto, I don't know, that's sort of your call isn't it? Depends on how much you want that particular person, like any other private deal. General commuting to work is generally not paid for, at least I've never gotten paid for it.

[Guest]

Do you even understand why the writers are striking? It is not funny, you know?

 

Look you've got to keep your sense of humour in this business. Neither writers, directors, DOPs, or grips, contribute any thing to society that society can't live without. We are "entertainment" we are not saving lives or curing cancer. Keep this in perspective.

 

 

As for providing milage because some crew person wants to commute everyday from Quebec to a production based in Toronto, I don't know, that's sort of your call isn't it? Depends on how much you want that particular person, like any other private deal. General commuting to work is generally not paid for, at least I've never gotten paid for it.

 

Well ok obviously some one can't commute from Quebec to Toronto each day. I'm talking about a drive of 1.5 hours each way. All I'm pointing out is that I was surprised as I crewed up my production how many Toronto film workers said, "I require so many cents per mile to drive to Barrie each day." I excused my self and hung up the phone on those people.

 

R,

[Brad Grimmett]

we get into the "Gone With the Wind in the morning - Dukes of Hazzard at night" scenario

I love that saying. I've heard it said 50 different ways, but that one's the best.

 

Regarding Richard....it seems to me that he just hates this business. I read his posts and it just seems like he can't stand the film business or the people who work in it. Is that the case Richard?

[Walter Graff]

Exactly. There are tax ramifications as well. When I was working on features, my income was about 80% payroll and 20% 1099. Now that I'm shooting unrepresented EPK on sets, my income is 100% 1099 which means I am employed only by myself and pay estimated taxes all year long.

 

And even then you might still be an employee of the companies you work for and don't know it.

Just some thoughts: A 1099 does not automatically mean you work for yourself and in fact is in many cases illegal in this industry according to IRS guidlines and even more subject to harsher inerpretaiton by most states. And just because you are a DP does not automaticlaly make you an independent contractor. Examples of jobs in this indutry that clasify you as an employee regardless of wheter you work a day or a year for a company are:

 

Inside Prop Person

Production Assistant

Camera Assistant

Camera Operator (who is not the DP)

Gaffer

Gennie Operator

Grip

 

 

I was part of ITVA when we worked to help create the guidelines of independent contractor status some years ago along with the IRS. And on the other side, an independent contractor of mine once created a snowball effect that caused the state to fine my company $250,000 for the misclassification of 52 people that I deemed ICs. Basicaly many folks, nor the companies that hire them relaize that they are often breaking the law when they simply give somene a 1099. There are a number of critical and signifgant factors that determine if you are an IC or employee. And that is only at a national level. Most states have seventeen factors that determine employee status. It isn't a problem untill someone reports your company, or you as a perosn that worked for a company get flagged becuase the company is audited for IC status. I know in my case the guy who caused our problem was an AC (now works for CSC) who mearly went to unemployment in NY and by putting down three companies he worked for caused the state ot audit all of us. In the end, my company faired well, because of the contracts that all signed with me and their own working relationships with themselves, except of course the poor AC who was fined $7000 by the government for accepting 1099s without being properly classified as an employee.