Lenses for Beaulieu 4008

[Kane Arcadia]

Hi guys,

 

im new to the film world, been living in a digital realm, but im trying to change, i promise :P

 

I got a question, fairly newby question, but i keep searching and cant find a answer that will sink it into my brain lol.

 

What lenses fit the BEAULIEU 4008 ZMII. When searching for lenses from online shops and places like ebay, what characteristics does it need to fit this cam?

 

I have heard it takes any c-mount lenses too, but im unsure about this suggestion.

 

Thanks for the help in advance,

and this website helps alot for people new to the film realm,

Cheers, Kane.

[jacob thomas]

Hi guys,

 

im new to the film world, been living in a digital realm, but im trying to change, i promise :P

 

I got a question, fairly newby question, but i keep searching and cant find a answer that will sink it into my brain lol.

 

What lenses fit the BEAULIEU 4008 ZMII. When searching for lenses from online shops and places like ebay, what characteristics does it need to fit this cam?

 

I have heard it takes any c-mount lenses too, but im unsure about this suggestion.

 

Thanks for the help in advance,

and this website helps alot for people new to the film realm,

Cheers, Kane.

 

It does take 'any C-mount' lens (as long as the rear element doesn't protrude beyond the mount, luckily this is the case with all of the c-mount lenses I've used).

It can also take slr and cinema lenses via an adapter.

Edited January 29, 2008 by jacob thomas

[kevin jackman]

i suggest realy good c mount primes or a zoom from an xl1 video camera if you can find one at a good price. it will be much beter than the old zooms from the 70s and 60s

[Kane Arcadia]

It does take 'any C-mount' lens (as long as the rear element doesn't protrude beyond the mount, luckily this is the case with all of the c-mount lenses I've used).

It can also take slr and cinema lenses via an adapter.

 

Thanks for the reply :)

 

How does one know if it will protrude beyond the mount? Is there any measurements on the lenses / camera that would tell me this?

 

There are sooo many lenses on places like ebay that its a hard to figure out what one would fit the cam.

 

I also have a adapter that will take Canon mounted lenses, but even with this info i havent got much of a clue what ones will fit it.

[Kane Arcadia]

i suggest realy good c mount primes or a zoom from an xl1 video camera if you can find one at a good price. it will be much beter than the old zooms from the 70s and 60s

 

I'd imagine the newer lenses would be able to do more than the oldies. So any of these newer lenses from the xl1/xl2 would fit the 4008? If not, what characteristics do these lenses need to have?

[Bernhard Zitz]

it will be much beter than the old zooms from the 70s and 60s

 

I've been more than once surprised by the quality of old lenses. If they're in shape, old lenses can perform rather good. For example the 6-66 on my leicina special is an awesome lens that's older than me. Or the 60s and 70s switars on a bolex produce quality images.

 

Allthough I never liked the Angenieux zoom on the 4008.

 

a zoom from an xl1 video camera if you can find one at a good price.

 

Has anyone ever used a lens for 3CDD (like XL1 or broadcastvideo) on a Filmcamera? I wonder if this really works. Due to the prism in a 3CDD the lens might have a special design that doesn't work for film or single chip, at least fully open problems might occur.

 

Would the XL1-lens cover Super8? a 1/3" chip is a little smaller than Super8...

[Guest Glenn Brady]

The optical performance of some lenses intended for use with video cameras may not compare favorably with the optical performance of a good lens intended for use with motion picture cameras. In addition, lenses for the Beaulieu 4008 series cameras must have a flange focus of 17.52mm. Many video lenses are CS-mount, so they'll fit the Beaulieu physically but, because they have a 5mm shorter flange focus distance, won't work at all. Other lenses that will fit the camera physically but won't work include Bolex H8 RX lenses (15.305mm flange focus) and Bolex H16 RX lenses (20.76mm flange focus).

 

The Schneider-Kreuznach 6-66mm f/1.8 Optivaron lens is acknowledged as one of the finest lenses made for the Super 8 format and it was original equipment on most Beaulieu 4008 ZM II cameras. In addition, these lenses are generally equipped with servos for automatic iris and zooming, making full use of the capabilities of the camera.

[Kane Arcadia]

The Schneider-Kreuznach 6-66mm f/1.8 Optivaron lens is acknowledged as one of the finest lenses made for the Super 8 format and it was original equipment on most Beaulieu 4008 ZM II cameras. In addition, these lenses are generally equipped with servos for automatic iris and zooming, making full use of the capabilities of the camera.

 

The 4008 ZM II i brought came with a Schneider Optivaron 1.4/6-70 mm. I want to get the camera converted to SD8/MAX8 and put an anamorphic attachment on the end such as the Iscorama 42, but Bjorn Andersson said that the 1.4/6-70mm would have big vignetting problems.

 

Do you think that the Schneider 1,8/6-66 would eliminate the vignetting problems?

 

And do you know if the Iscorama 42 would fit the Schneider 1,8/6-66?

Edited January 29, 2008 by Kane George Jason

[Guest Glenn Brady]

Do you think that the Schneider 1,8/6-66 would eliminate the vignetting problems? And do you know if the Iscorama 42 would fit the Schneider 1,8/6-66?

 

Björn is the one to advise you about the covering power of those lenses, but I suspect the 6-66mm wouldn't be appreciably different from the 6-70mm. The attachment thread on the 6-66 is 62mm, and the rear thread on the Iscorama 42 is 62mm according to Martin Baumgarten (see specifications he'd gathered below), so it ought to fit physically, but, given the 42mm diameter of the rear element, I'm not sure it would work optically. The Iscorama 54 might be a better choice, but I think it's a very expensive item. Maybe someone who knows more about these optics than I do will chime in.

 

ISCORAMA-54

Magnification (horizontal).......1.5x

Distance Scale..........2m to infinity

Rear Barrel Diameter...........78mm

Rear Lens Element Diameter...54mm

Length..............................102.5mm (maximum)

Net Weight........................1000 grams

Filter Thread......................95mm

Rear Barrel Threading.........77mm

Light-loss Absorbtion...........1/3 Stop or less

 

ISCORAMA-42

Magnification (horizontal).......1.5x

Distance Scale...............2m to infinity

Front outside diameter..........87mm

Rear Barrel Diameter.............43mm(?)

Rear Lens Element Diameter...42mm

Length..............................83mm (maximum)

Net Weight........................750 grams

Filter Thread......................82mm

Rear Barrel Threading.........62mm

Light-loss Absorbtion...........1/3 Stop or less

[Michael Lehnert]

I want to get the camera converted to SD8/MAX8 and put an anamorphic attachment on the end such as the Iscorama 42, but Bjorn Andersson said that the 1.4/6-70mm would have big vignetting problems.

 

When going for Ultra 8, vignetting is of a quite equal problem for the Schneider Beaulieu-Optivaron 1:1,8 / 6-66mm (C-Mount) with Beaulieu Reglomatic as found by default on the Beaulieu 4008 ZM II model and the Schneider Beaulieu-Optivaron 1:1,4 / 6-70mm (C-Mount) with Beaulieu Reglomatic as found by default on the Beaulieu 4008 ZM IV model.

But Björn is right by pointing out the latter lens are more troublesome!

 

The Schneider 11x6mm outperforms the Schneider 6-70mm in many ways and is definitely a better choice for serious Super 8 cinematography (and to be honest, doing scope is not for the faint-hearted).

Actually, loads of lenses found in the Super 8 format outperform the Schneider 6-70mm.... For a camera/lens ranking involving C-Mount and 4008-series lenses, click here.

 

Could I also bring to your attention that it does seem to be a little bit tautological overkill to want to use an anamorphic attachment AND expand the film gate to Ultra 8 (or Super 8 B, Super Duper 8, Max 8 ? although note that Max 8 is actually something slightly different [click here to read]; just a note to senior members of this forum here: as I feared, here we go with the bloody terminology confusion thanks to those "pros" at Pro8mm; sometimes, Pro8mm strikes me as irresponsible, despite their engagement for the format).

 

Leaving the issue aside that the anamorphic attachment was actually calculated for the Super 8 format (as in Academy 1:1.33) and hence using it on Ultra 8 without a shifted optical axis to the new centre of the Ultra 8 frame could lead to problematic distortions (irrespective of the nature of your later transfer chain, and especially if you want to actually project the film in a theatre) towards the crucial sides of the film frame where the barreling is at its extreme, I wonder whether it is a wise idea to set out as a novice in cine-film, plus the Super 8 format, and immediately jump to DIY Ultra 8 mods with a Iscorama/Scope bottleground at the front.

 

To paraphrase Han Solo: scope-cinematography isn't like dusting crops, boy!

[Michael Lehnert]

I also have a adapter that will take Canon mounted lenses, but even with this info i havent got much of a clue what ones will fit it.

 

Beaulieu offered a range of C-Mount adapters for its cameras. The Canon adapter that came with your 4008 (I assume) is most likely for Canon FD, the Canon FD-Bayonet found from 1971 onwards on the Canon F-1 generation of cameras. It also accepts Canon New FD-Mount lenses made for the Canon AE-1 generation from 1976 onwards. Although the New FD-Mount is actually still a breechlock- or spigot-style mount like its identical FD-Bayonet sibling and near-identical predecessors (R and FL), it is operated like a conventional screw mount.

[Gustavo Lopez]

Hello everybody

 

I am new in the forum and I recently purchased a Beaulieu zm II 40008, and I am still learning how to use it correctly.

 

I have bought 2 visionT 500 super 8 cartridges and I want to film some images at my friends concert with them, I think the light will be low or medium, typical light at a concert. Please can you tell me any recommendation about the camera controls with this type of film to get images with an acceptable quality? Should I open the diaphgram at maximun? And what about the iso? 200 or 400? An for slow motion 70 fps sequences any recomendation with 500t and low light scenes, can it be done?

 

I hope you can give me some advice if you have experienced with this kodak film and the camera.

 

 

Thanks very much!!

[kevin jackman]

ok, there are a few misconceptions here. the bolex rx lenses do not have a flange focal distance in the 20mm range. it is 17.52 just like any other c mount lens. the operating distance is longer due to the prism but all switar lenses have the same specificaton of 17.52. you just dont want to use the rx version becasue they are designed to inlcude the prism as a part of the optical design. you can use them from f2.8 or smaller apparently to get rid of the colour errors but this defeats the purpose of having a fast lens. using the non rx lenses is not a problem.

 

the canon video lenses are not cs mount. im talking about the one found on the modern video cameras. im not an expert on canon mounts but i pretty sure the xl1/xl2 lens mount will fit a canon to c mount adaptor. colours will be a little different becasue the lens is designed for video as opposed to film...however i know of video lenses passed (eg taylor-hobson cooke 40-400mm varitol) and some of the newer angenieux (eg 60-600mm) that were used with film cameras with fantastic results. older lenses such as the 60s-70s schneiders and angenieuxs have more saturated colours anyway so i wouldnt be surprised if a good video lens would be similar or as acceptable in a comparison. modern glass will be much sharper and have far better contrast.

 

older glass would have been ok in the days when filmstock wasnt as good as it is now but with low grain stocks why not get the most you can get out of them. especially when you are paying a relativly high price per minute (compared to video) everytimemm lenses. you hit the run button. i say get yourself zeiss primes.

 

if you want to widen your gate then why risk not getting the whole image properly. just get yourself 16mm lenses. you know they will cover properly. there is also a lot of selection out there. if you go video just make sure you get a lens that will cover the gate fully...meaning check te sensor size of the camera its coming off of.

[Guest Glenn Brady]

ok, there are a few misconceptions here. the bolex rx lenses do not have a flange focal distance in the 20mm range. it is 17.52 just like any other c mount lens. the operating distance is longer due to the prism but all switar lenses have the same specificaton of 17.52. you just dont want to use the rx version becasue they are designed to inlcude the prism as a part of the optical design. you can use them from f2.8 or smaller apparently to get rid of the colour errors but this defeats the purpose of having a fast lens. using the non rx lenses is not a problem.

 

See Dennis Couzin's article about C-mount versus RX-mount at http://erictheise.com/films/library/Dennis...n-RX-C-Rule.pdf.

[Guest Glenn Brady]

ok, there are a few misconceptions here. the bolex rx lenses do not have a flange focal distance in the 20mm range. it is 17.52 just like any other c mount lens. the operating distance is longer due to the prism but all switar lenses have the same specificaton of 17.52. you just dont want to use the rx version becasue they are designed to inlcude the prism as a part of the optical design. you can use them from f2.8 or smaller apparently to get rid of the colour errors but this defeats the purpose of having a fast lens. using the non rx lenses is not a problem.

 

The physical flange focus distance of H16 RX Switar lenses is 20.76mm and the physical flange focus distance of H8 RX Switar lenses is 15.305mm, so I'm not sure why you would claim ". . . all switar lenses have the same specification of 17.52." I've not tried an H16 RX lens on a Beaulieu 4008 series camera, but I have tried my H8 RX Switar lenses and can confirm they can't be focused on that camera.

[kevin jackman]

The physical flange focus distance of H16 RX Switar lenses is 20.76mm and the physical flange focus distance of H8 RX Switar lenses is 15.305mm, so I'm not sure why you would claim ". . . all switar lenses have the same specification of 17.52." I've not tried an H16 RX lens on a Beaulieu 4008 series camera, but I have tried my H8 RX Switar lenses and can confirm they can't be focused on that camera.

 

i think i wasnt clear. the 16mm lenses are 17.52mm. the H8 lenses are a different beast altogether. you can safely use the 16mm bolex lenses on a beaulieu if you wanted to. you cannot collimate the H8 lenses to standard c mount. and you wouldnt want to if you were going to widen the camera gate. to ensure coverage you really should go to 16mm lenses.

[Leo Anthony Vale]

The physical flange focus distance of H16 RX Switar lenses is 20.76mm and the physical flange focus distance of H8 RX Switar lenses is 15.305mm, so I'm not sure why you would claim ". . . all switar lenses have the same specification of 17.52." I've not tried an H16 RX lens on a Beaulieu 4008 series camera, but I have tried my H8 RX Switar lenses and can confirm they can't be focused on that camera.

 

Prisms or any glass in the optical path behind a lens stretches out the optical path of the lens.

That's why a camera that uses behind then lens filters has to be recollimated.

 

The 20.76mm PHYSICAL flange focus on the H16 Rexes compensates forr the altered optical path.

For practical purposes the EFFECTIVE flange focus is 17.52mm.

[kevin jackman]

Prisms or any glass in the optical path behind a lens stretches out the optical path of the lens.

That's why a camera that uses behind then lens filters has to be recollimated.

 

The 20.76mm PHYSICAL flange focus on the H16 Rexes compensates forr the altered optical path.

For practical purposes the EFFECTIVE flange focus is 17.52mm.

 

thanks leo, i was even going to google the actual bolex document for these guys. no need if they take what you say at face value...meaning ill probably have to google the document!