Flash Gordon (1980)

[James Steven Beverly]

I've always been amazed with the style and visuals in the otherwise rather campy comic book pic. Even today in this digital age I love the look of this film (the women's costumes didn't hurt either). I am actually kinda amazed what they were able to do without computers particularly with the clouds. (I'm assuming fishtanks of colored oils and massive green-screen?) Does anyone else love this movie the way I do and have any technical insight into how it was done? Long live Ming! :D

Edited May 7, 2008 by James Steven Beverly

[Guest Stephen Murphy]

You are not alone:) Love it and yes i still love the soundtrack., especially the score.

[John Holland]

Your correct about the oil in water , i was working at Shepperton Studios when it was being shot saw Mings Palace a model about 20 ft tall on a a very large stage which had a massive blue screen .

[Rupe Whiteman]

... I always thought it was a bit sad that the director of 'Get Carter' ended up doing tosh like Flash Gordon...

[Paul Bruening]

I still, from time to time, when my wife is putting on her seat belt in the car, say Topol's line from the launch scene, "Strap yourselves down!" I say it almost exactly as he does. She laughs. She still laughs at all my lame and corny gags.

[Freya Black]

I still, from time to time, when my wife is putting on her seat belt in the car, say Topol's line from the launch scene, "Strap yourselves down!" I say it almost exactly as he does. She laughs. She still laughs at all my lame and corny gags.

 

I hope you take really good care of her and look after her. It sounds like you are both having a fun time! :)

 

love

 

Freya

[Freya Black]

Your correct about the oil in water , i was working at Shepperton Studios when it was being shot saw Mings Palace a model about 20 ft tall on a a very large stage which had a massive blue screen .

 

Hang on, what was the blue screen for if there were no computers, or was there an electronic keying system of some other kind?

 

John you are always hinting at all these stories!

So what were you shooting at Shepperton at the same time as Flash!

I bet you have worked on loads of amazing films.

 

"Flash a-ah, he saved everyone of us!" (I think I have seen this movie!) ;)

 

love

 

Freya

Edited May 7, 2008 by Freya Black

[John Holland]

It would have been a commercial something like babys nappies cant remember . Blue Screen was used to produce a Travelling Matt not electronic but Optical was used for donkeys years .Star Wars is good example of it VFX plates shot using VistaVision cameras , they got it right "Flash " shot their blue screen using Todd-AO 35 mm anamorphics thats why the effects tend to look a bit poop . By the way blue screen is still used a lot now even with "computers ".

[Freya Black]

It would have been a commercial something like babys nappies cant remember . Blue Screen was used to produce a Travelling Matt not electronic but Optical was used for donkeys years .Star Wars is good example of it VFX plates shot using VistaVision cameras , they got it right "Flash " shot their blue screen using Todd-AO 35 mm anamorphics thats why the effects tend to look a bit poop . By the way blue screen is still used a lot now even with "computers ".

 

Wow! I guess I was kind of thinking that blue screen was something that came along with video, and the whole idea of chroma blue but I guess there was a whole optical process using filters to remove the blue bit! I've been doing some reasearch and I'm only starting to vaguely understand it! It almost seems like magic!

 

Facinating stuff!

 

love

 

Freya

[John Holland]

Freya , " The Magic of the Movies " have fun researching it . John .

[Paul Bruening]

Hey John,

 

Speaking of Star Wars and movie magic, I bought one of the two steppered, geared heads off of Ken Stone that was used to get those moco, tracking shots of the various, ship models in SW. Ken got them from ILM.

[Mitch Gross]

Blue screen and optical matting was around for many decades before computers were added to the mix. I believe Flash Gordon's effects were chronicled in either American Cinematographer or Cinefex at the time.

 

Surely Max Von Sydow's finest work after Strange Brew.

[John Holland]

Paul have you used them? or do you keep them in the car as another form of amusement for your wife ? john .

[Guest Tim Partridge]

It would have been a commercial something like babys nappies cant remember . Blue Screen was used to produce a Travelling Matt not electronic but Optical was used for donkeys years .Star Wars is good example of it VFX plates shot using VistaVision cameras , they got it right "Flash " shot their blue screen using Todd-AO 35 mm anamorphics thats why the effects tend to look a bit poop . By the way blue screen is still used a lot now even with "computers ".

 

Actually FLASH GORDON did use a prototype digtial compositing system developed by Frank Van Der Veer. It was a 3000 line video system with effects shot on film, transfered to video for compositing and then put back on film. Matte lines are really minimal in FLASH GORDON, but unfortunately the replacement side effect was transparency of some composites. Regardless, they were very innovative and let's be honest, against the not very good optical travelling matte work seen in EMPIRE STRIKES BACK and SUPERMAN II the same year, FLASH GORDON had great bluescreen work.

 

There is a buit of a pre-PHANTOM MENACE "virtual set" vibe to FLASH GORDON, in that alot of it was bits of sets built before big bluescreens, the rest achieved mixing models with matte paintings.

 

As John mentions, the miniatures for FLASH GORDON were shot in Britain by Richard Conway's team. All of the opticals and mattes were done in LA at VAN DER VEER PHOTO. It was that time when Britain couldn't really compete with American optical work (lots of small UK boutique optical shops that could only a do a few bits at a time unlike the Hollywood factories like ILM and Van Der Veer).

 

I am a big fan of the movie FLASH GORDON, and like BARON MUNCHAUSEN a few years later (that by coincidence Richard Conway also did the special effects for) it's all about a British based director going overboard with the pastiche Fellini design excess.

 

Gilbert Taylor's high res photography is stunning, particuarly all of the glossy net work and dry ice (Ming's extrance). I do really like the smokey "WICKER MAN"-esque opening shots of Scotland at the mini airport too, which look like additional DP Harry Waxman probably shot them.

[Serge Teulon]

I still remember sitting in the cinema watching this film....I couldn't even eat my bag of sweets!! :o

Would a re-make be out of the question?

 

S

[John Holland]

"Actually FLASH GORDON did use a prototype digtial compositing system developed by Frank Van Der Veer. It was a 3000 line video system with effects shot on film, transfered to video for compositing and then put back on film. Matte lines are really minimal in FLASH GORDON, but unfortunately the replac

ement side effect was transparency of some composites "

 

Tim do you know what scenes used this 3000 line system ? seems very low res on an anamorphic image .

[Guest Tim Partridge]

I don't know exactly and have heard conflicting arguments about how much was video composited.

 

Here's a brief bit on it though from http://www.theasc.com/magazine/april05/conundrum2/page1.html

 

"During that era, computers and their encompassing ?digital? aspects became the basis of experiments within the usually time-consuming realm of optical printing. Over 17 years, Barry Nolan and Frank Van Der Veer (of Van Der Veer Photo) built a hybrid electronic printer that, in 1979, composited six two-element scenes in the campy sci-fi classic Flash Gordon. Using both analog video and digital signals, the printer output a color frame in 9 seconds at 3,300 lines of resolution. If optical printing seemed time-consuming, the new methods weren?t exactly lightning-fast, either, and the look couldn?t yet compete with the traditional methods."

 

I still don't think there is one compositing scene in FLASH GORDON that comes anywhere near the visual grubbiness of the Hoth Battle from EMPIRE STRIKES BACK.

[John Holland]

Thanks for that . Empire Hoth battle was very difficult to do . Snowscapes and daytime shots with space ships and walkers !! a blue screen nightmare .

[Guest Tim Partridge]

What, and a psychadelic Fellini LSD trip of a city in space with loads of space rockets and Hawkmen is peasy?? :huh:

[John Holland]

No i love "Flash" i was comparing it to the 1st "Star Wars" which had loads of black space which is easier to hide the matte lines .

[Leo Anthony Vale]

"During that era, computers and their encompassing ?digital? aspects became the basis of experiments within the usually time-consuming realm of optical printing. Over 17 years, Barry Nolan and Frank Van Der Veer (of Van Der Veer Photo) built a hybrid electronic printer that, in 1979, composited six two-element scenes in the campy sci-fi classic Flash Gordon. Using both analog video and digital signals, the printer output a color frame in 9 seconds at 3,300 lines of resolution. If optical printing seemed time-consuming, the new methods weren?t exactly lightning-fast, either, and the look couldn?t yet compete with the traditional methods."

 

Van Der Veer would have been one of the smaller FX factories. Chris Casady told me that Van Der Veer would bend over backwards to do an effect badly. De Laurentis hooked up withhim for 'King Kong' Probably lowest bidder.

 

Anyway, I read an interview back than, probably with Barry Nolan, that the video printer couldn't do any manipulation of the image. Anything that required garbage mattes had to be done optically.

(I noticed in the 80s that garbage mattes were visible in video transfers of scenes with black backgrounds, spaceships. I'd watch 'Star wars' or 'Flash Gordon' on TV with a dropped jaw as I'd see boxes around the space ships)

 

If there were a lot of TM shots, it was over all quicker to shot them optically. If a show only needed a few noncomplicated shots they'd use the video printer.

[Paul Bruening]

Paul have you used them? or do you keep them in the car as another form of amusement for your wife ? john .

 

I haven't put it to use, yet. It has the stepper motors but not the driver/amps. It's really heavy. It might look cool as a hood ornament on my little Ford Festiva.

[Guest Tim Partridge]

Van Der Veer would have been one of the smaller FX factories. Chris Casady told me that Van Der Veer would bend over backwards to do an effect badly. De Laurentis hooked up withhim for 'King Kong' Probably lowest bidder.

 

Anyway, I read an interview back than, probably with Barry Nolan, that the video printer couldn't do any manipulation of the image. Anything that required garbage mattes had to be done optically.

(I noticed in the 80s that garbage mattes were visible in video transfers of scenes with black backgrounds, spaceships. I'd watch 'Star wars' or 'Flash Gordon' on TV with a dropped jaw as I'd see boxes around the space ships)

 

Thanks for the info Leo. I think I have read that interview too (the one I read was with Frank Van Der Veer for a SFX book special).

 

It looks like once again I am on my own as far as VAN DER VEER's optical work went! They were a decent shop, they worked on the entire STAR WARS trilogy and the first two SUPERMAN movies. Frank Van Der Veer was head of opticals at Fox for years too, as you know.

 

As for the garbage matte issue I have always tended to find that they seemed to stand out more on NTSC videos and now DVDs. All of the VHS copies of movies containing garbage mattes that I use to own had this problem, much moreso than the PAL copies. I wasted so many hours "calibrating" poor quality TV sets to correct it. I'm sure one of you guys can fill me in with the technical reason...

[Emmanuel Lariviere]

"Actually FLASH GORDON did use a prototype digtial compositing system developed by Frank Van Der Veer. It was a 3000 line video system with effects shot on film, transfered to video for compositing and then put back on film. Matte lines are really minimal in FLASH GORDON, but unfortunately the replac

ement side effect was transparency of some composites "

 

Tim do you know what scenes used this 3000 line system ? seems very low res on an anamorphic image .

 

 

 

John, the shots were cockpit interiors. It was for the scene when Ming's daughter escaped with Flash and tried to seduce him. I got this from an old issue of AC, in a article about video compositing.

[Leo Anthony Vale]

It looks like once again I am on my own as far as VAN DER VEER's optical work went! They were a decent shop, they worked on the entire STAR WARS trilogy and the first two SUPERMAN movies. Frank Van Der Veer was head of opticals at Fox for years too, as you know.

 

Chris Casady was comparing Van Der Veer's blue screen shots on 'Star Wars' with ILM's blue screen shots. I think Van Der Veer's shots were the Millenium Falcon interiors for the dog fight. They might have been shot 4-perf Scope insted of Vistavision.

 

They were a 4-perf shop. There was no Vistavision on 'Dune'.

 

'King Kong's blue screen was decent & they had to deal with all that edge hair.

 

& they were one of the three credited shops on the 'Star Trek' series. I think Linn Dunn was the main shop.