Leitz lenses

[Zack Spiger]

Has anyone ever used Leitz lenses on a 35mm motion picture camera? I found a series of 15, 19, 24, 35, 50, 80, 100, 135 T 2.8 advertised on a camera rental website in Paris, France.

 

Are these converted Leica still lenses or cine lenses?

[Max Jacoby]

They are converted stills lenses. Vantage Film, Panavision UK and other companies have similar conversions. The drawback of these Leica lenses is unfortunately that their stops vary between T1.4 and T2.8.

[Mitch Gross]

Abel has a set of these as well. The conversion (a very good one) was done by Van Dieman in the UK. Beautiful lenses.

[Zack Spiger]

They are converted stills lenses. Vantage Film, Panavision UK and other companies have similar conversions. The drawback of these Leica lenses is unfortunately that their stops vary between T1.4 and T2.8.

 

 

Do you know of any films or music videos shot with these lenses? Has the Leitz Noctilux ever been modified for cine cameras?

[Guest Glen Alexander]

Do you know of any films or music videos shot with these lenses? Has the Leitz Noctilux ever been modified for cine cameras?

 

a bit off topic

 

I read somewhere that Kubrik used a Zeiss 50mm f/0.7 for Barry Lyndon?

[John Brawley]

a bit off topic

 

I read somewhere that Kubrik used a Zeiss 50mm f/0.7 for Barry Lyndon?

 

Read about it.

 

http://www.visual-memory.co.uk/sk/ac/len/page1.htm

 

Of course these days it wouldn't be necessary because the stocks are so much more sensitive....

 

jb

[Guest Glen Alexander]

Read about it.

 

http://www.visual-memory.co.uk/sk/ac/len/page1.htm

 

Of course these days it wouldn't be necessary because the stocks are so much more sensitive....

 

jb

 

hmm, are the stocks really that much more sensitive? or is it that most films are going to go through DI, color correction, etc.. so kodak has tailored the film for the current processing?

[David Auner aac]

hmm, are the stocks really that much more sensitive? or is it that most films are going to go through DI, color correction, etc.. so kodak has tailored the film for the current processing?

 

Well, sorry to continue rather off-topic, but since it has come up...

 

Barry Lyndon was shot on 5254 which was EI 100, AFAIK that was a rather fast color stock for the 70s, if not the fastest. Compare this to todays EI 500 films, thats two and one thirds stops faster!

 

Cheers, Dave

[John Brawley]

Well, sorry to continue rather off-topic, but since it has come up...

 

Barry Lyndon was shot on 5254 which was EI 100, AFAIK that was a rather fast color stock for the 70s, if not the fastest. Compare this to todays EI 500 films, thats two and one thirds stops faster!

 

Cheers, Dave

 

Which means you can shoot with T1.3 Supers which are 2 stops slower than an F0.7 lens. Di's aren't bringing you anything extra in terms of exposure.

 

jb

[Dan Goulder]

I have a 200mm Leica that's been converted to Arri standard mount. The housing is as solid as anything you'll find in cinematography lenses. If anyone's interested, it's for sale. There is no asking price, although all generous offers will be considered.

[Max Jacoby]

Do you know of any films or music videos shot with these lenses? Has the Leitz Noctilux ever been modified for cine cameras?

The only film that I know of being shot on the Leitz is Est Ouest by French director Regis Wargnier. They are mostly used as Macro lenses, not for whole features.

 

These are the R-Lenses that got converted, not the M-Series which the Noctilux is part of.

[Guest Glen Alexander]

Which means you can shoot with T1.3 Supers which are 2 stops slower than an F0.7 lens. Di's aren't bringing you anything extra in terms of exposure.

 

jb

 

well, now really taking over the thread, sorry, but with some much made about color correction, people making careers out of it, what is the benchmark of how well you really need to have good color matched lenses these days???

[Saul Rodgar]

Which means you can shoot with T1.3 Supers which are 2 stops slower than an F0.7 lens. Di's aren't bringing you anything extra in terms of exposure.

 

jb

 

Personally I would love to shoot with a F.7 lens. I could shoot at night with real moonlight! Look ma, no lights!

 

Also, the added value of a lens that fast is that one could stay with 100/200 ASA in 16/S16mm and get away from grain, instead of shooting using 500T stock. For 35mm it wouldn't give you that much grain reduction. But being that I shoot S16 film only, (have not graduated to 35mm yet) to me that would be great.

 

Focus would be hyper critical though . . . But the shallow focus look could also be great, (for those of us who want 16mm to look more like 35mm).

[John Brawley]

well, now really taking over the thread, sorry, but with some much made about color correction, people making careers out of it, what is the benchmark of how well you really need to have good color matched lenses these days???

 

 

I think people have always made careers out of colour correcting, it's just that the tools have changed.

 

It used to matter that lenses matched and it used to matter that the film came from the same batch. Now-a-days though it can be largely dealt with via a DI.

 

Of course if you were doing a traditional optical finish, it would be harder to correct out a colour bias...

 

jb

[georg lamshöft]

I have used Leica/Leitz lenses for still photography.

In my experience, the older lenses (~60/70/80s) are rendering beautiful images but in terms of technical apsects (resolution, contrast, distortion...) they're not better than most new high-end-glass from Canon/Nikon/Fuji.

In the late 80s Leica realized that they cannot compete with Japanese prices and they sold their Canadian faciliity which became ELCAN (Ernst Leitz Canada), this company designed and produced many Panavision lenses (Primo?). Leica insourced their complete lens production back to Germany (I think one Japanese zoom-lens is left) and started to create new, innovative, even more complex and expensive designs (from 2,8/100Apo on). Most >50mm R-lenses and nearly all M-lenses are new designs. These lenses are really, really great! Sadly, the more compact and sometimes more powerful (no retrofocus) M-lenses cannot be adapted to SLR-cameras, including film-cameras.

But most R-Lenses (21-35, 28-90, 35-70, 70-180, 19mm, 28mm, 50mm and all Apos) are great performers and should be quite interesting for cinematography (but they breathe, they're still photography lenses...).

Edited May 18, 2008 by georg lamshöft

[Max Jacoby]

In the late 80s Leica realized that they cannot compete with Japanese prices and they sold their Canadian faciliity which became ELCAN (Ernst Leitz Canada), this company designed and produced many Panavision lenses (Primo?).

ELCAN only did the assembly of the Primos, while Panavision themselves are responsible for the design (both optical and mechanical). The Technical Academy Awards for these lenses all went to Panavision employees, not anyone from ELCAN.

[georg lamshöft]

http://optics.org/cws/product/P000002510

This article seems to claim that ELCAN designed and manufactured these lenses and Panavision "just" ordered them and maybe did some final assembly work.

That's also what I've read a few times and it seemed quite logical to me because lens design and production needs specific know-how which has very little to do with traditional fine mechanics (cnc-machining...) I'm not sure if that's true but it would surprise me if Panavision "comes out of nowhere" and is able to machine/coat/assemble lenses to these high standards!?

[Mitch Gross]

Girls, girls, you're both pretty.

 

Panavision had a set of design specs; Elcan did the manufacturing to these specs. It took the know how of Panavision to come up with the design; it took the know how of Elcan to execute it.

 

Hey, Apple designed the iPhone and has it manufactured in the Far East. Who gets the credit for that?

[georg lamshöft]

That sounds interesting:

http://www.moneyhouse.ch/u/leica_cinema_gm...4.034.603-1.htm

Mr. Kaufmann (CEO/owner of Leica Camera) said that in "1-2 years" Leica Cinema will come up with some stuff (most likely lenses).

 

@Mitch Gross

Comparing iPhones with high-quality lens making...

Consumer electronics are dead quality-wise, since highly-skilled (and fair paid) craftsmanship was exchanged by low-wages slave-work (the iPhone is assembled by a Taiwanese company not even willing to pay Taiwanese wages, they go to China, probably China buys weapons with that money to attack Taiwan -probably one of these things our children will raise their eyebrowes in history class?...). I remember when a teacher of mine looked at my MacbookPro and said none of his students would have passed delivering such a lousy fitting of the metal components... ;-)

 

So please: highly-skilled (handmade/assembly) craftsmanship for all small production numbers and high-tech automatized manufacturing for good-quality mass products (like Swatch) but please no slaves assembling MP3-players that are sold for 5 times their monthly wage...

 

Damn, I just wanted to tell how great Leica-lenses are and now I'm discussing political themes way beyond my English-skills, I apologize...

 

Sorry, back on-topic, please :-)

Edited May 20, 2008 by georg lamshöft

[Max Jacoby]

http://optics.org/cws/product/P000002510

This article seems to claim that ELCAN designed and manufactured these lenses and Panavision "just" ordered them and maybe did some final assembly work.

Yep that article seems to be a bit misleading, when I first read it, I also understood it like ELCAN did all the work. Like I said (and not to be petty!), the Academy Award that people from Panavision got, specifically gives them credit for the optical and mechanical design.

[Guest Glen Alexander]

I think people have always made careers out of colour correcting, it's just that the tools have changed.

 

It used to matter that lenses matched and it used to matter that the film came from the same batch. Now-a-days though it can be largely dealt with via a DI.

 

Of course if you were doing a traditional optical finish, it would be harder to correct out a colour bias...

 

jb

 

so what or how was any color correction done in the days with B&W film? seems like you had to get it the first time, every time, for each take and not rely on so much post optical or digital post prod.

[Leo Anthony Vale]

so what or how was any color correction done in the days with B&W film? seems like you had to get it the first time, every time, for each take and not rely on so much post optical or digital post prod.

 

Obviously B/W film doesn't require color correction, but it does require density correction.

 

Hard as it is to believe density and color correction were done in the pre-digital age, even blue screen traveling mattes were able to be made.

 

Here's a site explaining ways grading, British for timing, was accomplished:

 

http://www.brianpritchard.com/GRADING.htm