Music Video

F Bulgarelli · January 2, 2004

Hi Everyone

I'll be shooting a music video on Super16 and wanted to ask for advice on a couple of matters:

It'll be B&W with perhaps some digital color manipulation during the post process by adding color to one of the elements in the image, like for instance, Blood.

We are debating wether to shoot color and then desaturate or use B&W all the way. Do you guys think it makes a difference? I'll like the idea of B&W so that we'll be thinking in those terms throughout the shoot but there is more flexibility with the color stocks. (Speed, choice, etc)

Also, what do you think of 7222 for low key interiors. We want some grain but also a slick, contrasty look with strong blacks.

Thanks for your input.

Looking forward to a great 2004!!

Francisco

Mitch Gross · January 3, 2004

The color stocks are so much newer with so much more exposure range and you can manipulate so much in tlecine--I wouldn't bother with B&W unless it gave you exactly the look you wanted right out of the box. It may be easier to pull color matte effects by starting with the color stock.

F Bulgarelli · January 3, 2004

Thanks Mitch.

In your opinion, what considerations (if there is any) I should take with the lighting knowing that we are exposing color negative but will end up with a B&W image.

Everyone's input is appreciated.

Thanks

David Mullen ASC · January 3, 2004

You have to think in black & white in terms of your lighting, watching out for separation problems (objects of the same tone blending into each other) and having enough contrast.

F Bulgarelli · January 3, 2004

What do you guys think of using a Polaroid B&W or maybe even a digital camera with B&W settings to check for contrast and gray rendition from different colors.

Wil that be reliable at all?

Thanks

Francisco

David Mullen ASC · January 4, 2004

Sure that might be a good idea -- even the b&w video tap may be useful as a double-check on how it looks in monochrome.

If you're creating the look in digital color-correction, you'll have a lot of flexibility to adjust the contrast.

Jason Maeda · January 4, 2004

i find that i can often tell when a film was originated on color film and then made b/w in post, and i never really like it as much. "the man who wasn't there" being a good example. i don't know if it's the lack of grain, or some kind of lower contrast or what it is. can anyone help me understand what it is i'm seeing?

this is a little off-topic because it sounds to me like this process is exactly what is called for in this music video.

jason kollias :ph34r:

Phil Rhodes · January 4, 2004

Hi,

I think it's a contrast thing. Is it actually true that black and white stocks are generally contrasty, or is it just that we've all seen el-cheapo student shorts with poor or uncontrolled lighting which shoot monochrome to save money?is it just that the types of productions that are trying to save money on filmstock buy the cheapest types, which happen to be high-con? The latter scenario would explain why more fully-budgeted black and white movies tend to look slightly less contrasty, or maybe they're just shooting colour stock.

Phil

John Pytlak RIP · January 6, 2004

IMHO, the unique "look" of images originated on B&W silver image films is usually due to the well defined silver grains (rather than more diffuse "dye clouds"), as well as the contrast differences. I would call it "grittiness". Color negative films tend to make the images look "smoother", even when printed or viewed as B&W.

That's why Kodak continues to improve and offer a family of B&W films:

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/products/bw/

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/blackAndWhite_flash.jhtml

Sam Wells · January 9, 2004

more fully-budgeted black and white movies tend to look slightly less contrasty, or maybe they're just shooting colour stock.

I wouldn't say the B&W negatives are generally contrasty, you can look at the curves for various gammas on Kodak's site -- B&W reversal yes, it's supposed to be.

I would sa B&W can appear contrasty in high contrast situations as compared to color neg, but it can look flatter too, in well flat lit situations as there is no color to make anything stand out.

It can really be an art to get a nice snap *and* smooth midtones in B&W.

-Sam

F Bulgarelli · January 11, 2004

Thanks for all the info.

What do you guys think of 7222 pushed 1/2 or perhaps 1 stop? I think I will need the speed, plus the director wants some grain. Does any one have any experience or knowledge with this stock?

I'll definitely do some testing but I thought you might have some input.

Thanks