This is the level we're now at

[David Rakoczy]

Obviously this is the type of ridiculous misinformed response I predicted when I made my post, right on cue :lol: Question for you......why are Americans coming to Canada EVERYDAY for healthcare? Because they can't afford care in the USA that's why. David, I thought you where an intelligent person, your comments are the comments of ignorance and misinformation. You of all people can do better by doing some research on the web to answer these questions for yourself. R,

 

Mr. Bottington,

 

The answer to both of my questions is.. Yes. Absolutely. Denying this fact is ignorance (yes, yours) by it's very definition. ;)

 

No doubt there needs to be some changes to the healthcare insurance/ system models here is the USA. However, the LAST thing we need to do is give all the powers to the Federal Government. This country was founded on a distrust of Government and was designed to keep Government from becoming all powerful and allocated most powers to individual States. Unfortunately, about half the citizens of this great country are now bowed down and worship at the alter of the Tower of Babel we are now building in Washington D.C.

 

Since when did Big Brother become so Chic?

 

...glad you are happy with your healthcare system.. glad you are not a voting American :P

[Scott Fritzshall]

Let's see some evidence for what you're saying. Back this up. Since your assertions are "Absolutely" fact, you should have no problem with this.

[Scott Fritzshall]

I also just saw this somewhere else and thought it was probably an accurate reflection of your mindset:

This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US Department of Energy. I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility. After that, I turned on the FCC-regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. I watched this while eating my breakfast of US Department of Agriculture-inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the Food and Drug Administration.

 

At the appropriate time as regulated by the US Congress and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the US Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration-approved automobile and set out to work on the roads built by the local, state, and federal departments of transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve Bank. On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US Postal Service and drop the kids off at the public school.

 

After work, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to a house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and fire marshal's inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its valuables thanks to the local police department.

 

I then log on to the Internet which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration and post on freerepublic.com and Fox News forums to express my rage at the possibility of a public health care plan, because the government can't do anything right.

[Guest]

Mr. Bottington,

 

It's, BoDDington. No worries I get all sorts of variations.

 

...glad you are happy with your healthcare system.. glad you are not a voting American :P

 

Well all I would have to do is drive across the border and vote in 2012, millions of illegal aliens vote in the USA every year, what's one more?

 

So since you have this deep seeded distrust of government, I assume you will no longer be driving your car down the roads that where built and are maintained by the government?

 

If your house is on fire is there a private fire station you can call, or will you use the local government run fire department?

 

Is there a private military you can call on to protect you from the government or do you need to use the one run and operated by the federal government?

 

What about the public schools? The police? The post office? Fannie Mae? Freddie Mac? GM? Chrysler? AIG?

 

Hmmmm, your government is now running more of the country than the gov't runs in Canada!

 

No bank bailouts or private companies being socialized up here in Canada ;)

 

R,

[David Rakoczy]

:rolleyes: ... have a great day Richard!

[Guest]

:rolleyes: ... have a great day Richard!

 

Thanks, I will. Great day here in the land of "free" health care.

 

It is some what funny that at the bottom of this site the Google ads show Obama wearing a surgeons cap with the question, "Do you support Obama's health care plan." You are supposed to click the ad and vote.

 

R,

[David Rakoczy]

Thanks, I will. Great day here in the land of "free" health care. R,

 

FREE?... it's hardly free! Talk about misinformation :lol:

[Guest]

FREE?... it's hardly free! Talk about misinformation :lol:

 

Uh, yeah, hence the word free in quotes, we pay for it with our taxes. That's what the quotes imply.

 

R,

[Scott Fritzshall]

Uh, yeah, hence the word free in quotes, we pay for it with our taxes. That's what the quotes imply.

 

R,

TAXES??? You poor, oppressed thing. Here in the US, we cut taxes all the time! And then we wonder why we have have crumbling infrastructure, no social safety net, little available health care, etc. Reagan told us that we could have something for nothing though, so we got rid of all that stuff., Instead, we put our tax dollars where they belong- into the pockets of billionaires and into the defense industry so that they can blow up impoverished brown people and develop multi-billion dollar weapons to fight enemies that haven't existed in decades. And, of course, into top-secret illegal wiretapping programs to spy on us. We would never spend money on giving people health care though, that's just Orwellian (we read 1984 in high school but forgot most of it, it was about the horrors of the government paying for your operations, though, right?).

[David Rakoczy]

Uh, yeah, hence the word free in quotes, we pay for it with our taxes. That's what the quotes imply.

 

R,

 

 

er, if you pay for it with a high tax rate why write it as 'free'?

 

The fantastic Italian meal I just finished was 'free'.... Until they brought the bill. You just pay your bill upfront therefore it is all but free. Except if you die then the State keeps your money for 'free' and by free I mean 'free'. Nice attempt to save your self. Hopefully your editing is going better than this conversation. Right now all I am seeing is a bunch of jump cuts...

[Scott Fritzshall]

It's really cute that when you actually engage in discussion here, it's to haggle over an insignificant throwaway rather than actually addressing the substance of the conversation. Would you care to back up a single one of the arguments you've made thus far?

[Scott Fritzshall]

Oh also, the "high tax rate" that Richard pays for his health care is actually less than ours; we spend more tax dollars on health care than any other advanced country because single-payer insurance is inherently much cheaper than a private system. You could start by addressing that if you like.

[Guest]

er, if you pay for it with a high tax rate why write it as 'free'?

 

The fantastic Italian meal I just finished was 'free'.... Until they brought the bill. You just pay your bill upfront therefore it is all but free. Except if you die then the State keeps your money for 'free' and by free I mean 'free'. Nice attempt to save your self. Hopefully your editing is going better than this conversation. Right now all I am seeing is a bunch of jump cuts...

 

You just don't seem to get it?

 

Again....free in quotes, means it's not free, we pay for it via taxation. Yes. The reason I put "free" in quotes is because I am not handed a bill at the time I see a doctor or go to a hospital.

 

Now, what I am advocating is the single payer system where every one pays higher taxes (yes that's right higher taxes) and all the ridiculous money paid to so called insurance companies goes away.

 

That way every one is insured, no one goes bankrupt as a result of health care bills, etc. It's a very simple system. Why people like you fail to grasp the concept is quite baffling to all of us who live in the industrialized world outside of the USA.

 

Right now you have a pretty hefty tax bill in the USA and I would argue that you are getting very little value for your money.

 

That said do I think I will live to see the day when every one in the USA has health care, no, I do not. The US will come up with some sort of hybrid system that will still leave 50 million people with no health insurance.

 

R,

 

And Scott's point here is 100% accurate. Yes I pay higher taxes than you David, but I am getting some thing of value in return so it's a wash really.

 

"Oh also, the "high tax rate" that Richard pays for his health care is actually less than ours; we spend more tax dollars on health care than any other advanced country because single-payer insurance is inherently much cheaper than a private system. You could start by addressing that if you like."

[David Rakoczy]

50 million? Are you crazed? ... more disinformation! About 12 million are here illegally. Another huge percentage are younger folks who are simply gambling that they will not need medical attention so opt to not have insurance and another HUGE percentage simply enjoy their large homes and nice cars and have those as their priority instead of healthcare so give us a break. You must get you numbers from that News Station.. what was it?... oh yeah... MSLSD. Most thinking people refuse to revamp an entire system for less than 10% of the population. Yes there needs to be some changes but giving it all to the Govn't is insane. Do you offer free healthcare to illegal aliens in Canada? We would all do well to go back and read our Constitution and kick many rights and responsibilities back to individual States. If we were able to buy health insurance across State lines that alone would do a tremendous service toward creating competition and lowering the cost(s).

 

Richard, you are happy with high taxes and a large central Govn't. I oppose those things. We aren't going to change each other here. I like and respect you (and Scott) and wish you well.. though we have differing hopes for our Countries.

 

Enjoy your day. Hope the edit is going well. btw.. did you capture any violence or (perceived) violence in The Dogfather? .. any fight scenes?

 

Also I just returned from Quebec City.. stayed at the Chateu Frontenac (sp?)... had a GREAT time! Beautiful city with great food and wine. Glad I went!!!

[Mark Dunn]

I don't know if Canada treats illegal immigrants, but we do. It's called compassion. We would be in breach of international law if we didn't.

If I need to see a doctor, I see one. If I need to see a specialist, I get an appointment. If I need surgery, I get it, whether it costs a thousand pounds or a million- and I don't even know how much. I don't need to. Incidentally, we spend half the US proportion of GDP on health care.

It's not perfect, but no-one worries about not being able to get heath care. No-one.

[David Rakoczy]

I don't know if Canada treats illegal immigrants, but we do. It's called compassion. We would be in breach of international law if we didn't.

If I need to see a doctor, I see one. If I need to see a specialist, I get an appointment. If I need surgery, I get it, whether it costs a thousand pounds or a million- and I don't even know how much. I don't need to. Incidentally, we spend half the US proportion of GDP on health care.

It's not perfect, but no-one worries about not being able to get heath care. No-one.

 

For the most part.,that is true here in the US as well.

[Scott Fritzshall]

50 million? Are you crazed? ... more disinformation! About 12 million are here illegally. Another huge percentage are younger folks who are simply gambling that they will not need medical attention so opt to not have insurance and another HUGE percentage simply enjoy their large homes and nice cars and have those as their priority instead of healthcare so give us a break. You must get you numbers from that News Station.. what was it?... oh yeah... MSLSD. Most thinking people refuse to revamp an entire system for less than 10% of the population. Yes there needs to be some changes but giving it all to the Govn't is insane. Do you offer free healthcare to illegal aliens in Canada? We would all do well to go back and read our Constitution and kick many rights and responsibilities back to individual States. If we were able to buy health insurance across State lines that alone would do a tremendous service toward creating competition and lowering the cost(s).

The number of uninsured is the same regardless of how much you try to minimize it. Undocumented immigrants still need healthcare just like the rest of us, and our failure to cover them actually ends up costing us more money. They, like the rest of the uninsured, end up using emergency rooms for primary care, which ends up raising the costs for the rest of us. The remainder of the uninsured tend to be the young and the poor.

 

By "MSLSD" I'm assuming you're referring to MSNBC? The same "liberal" network that regularly gives everyone's favorite racist grandpa Pat Buchanan airtime and treats him as though his opinion was worthwhile? The same Pat Buchanan that just this week published an article defending Hitler? Just checking.

 

You bring up the Constitution for the second time, again without any specific reference. Again I'll remind you of Article I, Section 8, which explicitly permits Congress to levy taxes to provide for the welfare of the nation.

 

The idea of allowing people to purchase private insurance across state lines is an utterly horrible one. We already tried this with Credit Cards. Banks issuing credit cards used to be limited by the laws of the states that their customers lived in, until we changed that law. Almost immediately, every credit card company moved to the state with the loosest laws, and begun to charge usurious interest rates to everyone in the country. Why exactly would this not happen with insurance providers? Some state will want more tax revenue, so they'll drop all of their regulatory laws, which will entire every insurance company to move there. Then they'll jack up the prices and provide even less care, for everyone in the country, because there is no longer anyone stopping them.

 

For the most part.,that is true here in the US as well.

It is substantially not true. Millions of people, including many who are technically insured, cannot afford health care, and so they avoid necessary treatment. There was a huge event pretty close to me last month where doctors filled a stadium and gave free treatment to thousands. People lined up for days in order to get treatment for conditions which they've had for years, which they had been unable to have treated because they could not afford it.

[Guest]

50 million? Are you crazed? ...

 

That is the number most commonly used in the USA when this issue is debated.

 

Do you offer free healthcare to illegal aliens in Canada?

 

Yes of course, this is Canada after all. No country on earth has better treated illegal aliens and refugees than Canada does. In fact as soon as a person is granted refugee status in Canada they have access to all the same social services and employment that any other Canadian does. This point is hotly debated in this country but it's how it is for now.

 

Richard, you are happy with high taxes and a large central Govn't. I oppose those things. We aren't going to change each other here. I like and respect you (and Scott) and wish you well.. though we have differing hopes for our Countries.

 

Yes I'm quite sure you are correct.

 

Enjoy your day. Hope the edit is going well. btw.. did you capture any violence or (perceived) violence in The Dogfather? .. any fight scenes?

 

I'm not sure what you mean by capture any violence or perceived violence? Are you saying this would not be in harmony with Canadian values? There is perceived violence when a gang of kids fire automatic nerf guns at the mafia. They also fire nerf rockets at the mafia as well. Why?

 

R,

[David Rakoczy]

Richard, it would have been nice if you would have wished me well.. as well. A gentlemanly 'we agree to disagree is always the better approach'. ;)

 

..I am seriously curious.. no ulterior motives.. you did a 'gangster' dog movie right?... is it a comedy or more serious? My question is because all 'gangster' movies have violence or perceived violence at a minimum. What did you pull off? Do you have a classic 'Good Fellas' scene I'll enjoy?

 

I actually am intrigued by your Concept. That was a compliment... even though you called me ignorant and misinformed...

 

Like the title says "Is this the level we are at?"

 

50 million is 'misinformed' my friend... switch channels!

[David Rakoczy]

By "MSLSD" I'm assuming you're referring to MSNBC? The same "liberal" network that regularly gives everyone's favorite racist grandpa Pat Buchanan airtime and treats him as though his opinion was worthwhile? The same Pat Buchanan that just this week published an article defending Hitler? Just checking. - Scott Fritzshall

 

Exactly.. and they couldn't bring a more productive 'conservative' to promote their agenda! Fantastic casting... but any number of other middle and conservative folks will never be allowed in.... for obvious reasons.

[Guest]

Richard, it would have been nice if you would have wished me well.. as well. A gentlemanly 'we agree to disagree is always the better approach'. ;)

 

I wish you well, I wish you well.

 

..I am seriously curious.. no ulterior motives.. you did a 'gangster' dog movie right?... is it a comedy or more serious? My question is because all 'gangster' movies have violence or perceived violence at a minimum. What did you pull off? Do you have a classic 'Good Fellas' scene I'll enjoy?

 

It's a comedy aimed at kids. Not much Good Fellas style of scenes.

 

I actually am intrigued by your Concept. That was a compliment... even though you called me ignorant and misinformed...

 

Well there's a difference, the information one puts forth can be based on such faulty data that it can be classified as "ignorance or misinformation". Ignorance simply stemming from ones lack of correct data, even though the person who believes the data is not actually an ignorant person and can be quite intelligent. So in your case you are not an ignorant person by any means, but your data comes from faulty sources.

 

50 million is 'misinformed' my friend... switch channels!

 

Ok then fine. What number of un-insured do you accept? What is the number Glenn Beck and FOX News agree on?

 

R,

[Brad Grimmett]

David,

Are you a big Ron Paul supporter?

[Phil Rhodes]

What... have... I... done...

[David Rakoczy]

David,

Are you a big Ron Paul supporter?

 

 

No. But I am a registered Independent.

 

Bush let us down while Obama is tearing us down... a 'real' third party would do this nation good! So would replacing the Congress. Strange how people see no problem with life long politicians.

 

Brad, how is work in LA... picking up any?

 

 

Well there's a difference, the information one puts forth can be based on such faulty data that it can be classified as "ignorance or misinformation". Ignorance simply stemming from ones lack of correct data, even though the person who believes the data is not actually an ignorant person and can be quite intelligent. So in your case you are not an ignorant person by any means, but your data comes from faulty sources. - Richard Boddington

 

Kinda like 50 million? ;)

[Rob Vogt]