Total Newbie, No Idea Whatsoever...

schmolze · February 4, 2005

Hi everyone.

Sorry to be the lame duck here, but I have a few questions.

PLanning on making my own film(s) with some friends over the coming months, most likely with the DVX100a.

It will be done essentially with no budget, just friends who are willing and able.

I have experience as an actor, and have been in some films. I have a good eye for cinematography, framing, etc...

What I have no clue about is lighting.

Is it absurd for me to think that I can get away with shooting a short/feature wtih all natural lighting? Most of it will take place in the woods, but there are a few interior scenes.

What are the absolute basics I need know/buy for lighting?

THank you all.

Rik Andino · February 4, 2005

You can shoot a film with Natural lighting

But it's gotta be EXT. Day

You can also shoot with available light

But it'll usually not look too great

These questions (tips on lighting) have been asked before

And have been answered numerous times by most of us

Answered to death...! :o

DO A SEARCH

You'll find something.

If you need answers to a more specific question

Then ask it and someone will tackle it.

Seek and you shall find.

GOOD LUCK

Delorme Jean-Marie · February 5, 2005

hi

it's great you want to do everything, directing, write, act, light, drive the truck and fix the sandwiches but for lighting there are 2 solutions you could learn lighting and then your first lightings are gona be newbes type of light or contact a DOP nearby your place.

i'm sure you'l meet some great guys or girls who experienced those questions and wait for directors to put what they have in the head in images.

filming is a team work and discusing whith the DOP will help you directing as well.

plenty of DOP will be glad to make you discover the lighting

have fun :)

David Mullen ASC · February 5, 2005

I'm sort of loathe to answer the question because while I can help someone out how has a vision for the way the light should look in the scene, but no experience as to how to accomplish it, I can't help someone who has no clue as to what he wants in the first place, lighting-wise -- I can't supply visual imagination for where it is lacking. Even when I was an absolute beginner, I knew what quality light I wanted or liked, or had visual references that I wanted to copy. Then it was a matter of figuring out how to achieve it.

Lighting is not simply having enough exposure to get an image.

The answers to questions have to be based on what specifically you are trying to accomplish visually. There isn't a "generic" solution.

Yes, you can probably shoot most of a movie on DV in available light -- but what if the available light is not the correct light for the scene, emotionally or logically?

Diana Whatley · February 5, 2005

These questions (tips on lighting) have been asked before
And have been answered numerous times by most of us

Answered to death...! :o

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Rik!!! Your account is new after the Holidays! Don't be such a smarty!

:P This person DID do a search! And what this person found was us! If you've answered it to death, then surely you have a pre-typed list of resources readily at hand that you can just blast up on the board here for 'em!

In the meantime, Schmolze, try the book: Film Lighting by Kris Malkiewicz.

Peace,

Diana

Sam Wells · February 5, 2005

Yes, you can probably shoot most of a movie on DV in available light -- but what if the available light is not the correct light for the scene, emotionally or logically?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You can shoot a movie on any format in available light, but it's FAR more a skill and an aesthetic in itself, than a solution to a resource or budget problem let alone lack of experience.

-Sam

DavidSloan · February 5, 2005

I'm sort of loathe to answer the question because while I can help someone out how has a vision for the way the light should look in the scene, but no experience as to how to accomplish it, I can't help someone who has no clue as to what he wants in the first place, lighting-wise -- I can't supply visual imagination for where it is lacking. Even when I was an absolute beginner, I knew what quality light I wanted or liked, or had visual references that I wanted to copy. Then it was a matter of figuring out how to achieve it.

Lighting is not simply having enough exposure to get an image.

The answers to questions have to be based on what specifically you are trying to accomplish visually. There isn't a "generic" solution.

Yes, you can probably shoot most of a movie on DV in available light -- but what if the available light is not the correct light for the scene, emotionally or logically?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is exactly why I didn't get involved with this thread. I see a frightening trend of people posting questions asking members to help with the creative aspect of their job! It's one thing when you don't know how to achieve something and it's quite another when you ask members how you should light the film in the first place. I simply detest questions like:

"I want to make a scary scene, how should I light it?"

Ed Nyankori · February 5, 2005

Wanna make a movie and dont understand lighting hire a gaffer. There are alot of electrics out there waiting, pineing, for an oppourtunity. Place a post on your local craigslist.org (on the tv/film/video), mandy.com or your local film group. You say youve been in some flicks then you know at least that it not simple so get someone involved in your project with a vision and hopefully some gear...

Shoot your film with "available light" and your sure to wind up hating it. No budget, save some dough your going to need it you can get great people to work for free but they darn sure need to eat and well. Good luck with your project...

Rik Andino · February 7, 2005

Rik!!! Your account is new after the Holidays! Don't be such a smarty!
:P This person DID do a search! And what this person found was us! If you've answered it to death, then surely you have a pre-typed list of resources readily at hand that you can just blast up on the board here for 'em!

In the meantime, Schmolze, try the book: Film Lighting by Kris Malkiewicz.

Peace,

Diana

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey I'm sorry if I offended you...

I've recently began posting so like you said I should know my place...

However I've been reading this post for the last 7-& something months

And I've seen alot of people ask similar questions:

Total Newbie--> What do I need to know to do low budget lighting

In fact I've only been responding for 'bout a month or so

And I've answered a couple of these already.

I've been working in the film industry for around 5 years

And one thing I learn there are no easy answers

And it slightly annoys me (like it does others in this forum)

That there are folks looking for an easy way in

When there is none, there never been one for most of us

There won't (and shouldn't) be one for the rest of them.

So my point is don't expect folks to think highly of you

Especially if you don't take some iniative...

And please stop starting threads with the words total Newbie

It gets irritating just call yourself a student...

Newbie sounds like someone with low self-esteem.

And BTW Diana if you're ever offended by something I write

The easiest and most straightfoward way to handle is just telling me:

RIK SHUTUP! :D

Don't worry I can handle it, I've got thick skin (unlike others)

Probably respect you too for it :)

Greg Gross · February 8, 2005

Things you need to consider based on your script(look,mood that you want).

Whats the story? How many scenes? Storyboard scenes so you have a vis-

ual guide to filming your story. You can always change scene while you are

shooting(be creative if you want). Things to consider:

1. Type of film/format you are using

2. Quality of light

3. Quanity of light

4. Direction of light

I suppose you will be scouting for locations to shoot your production also. I

have no idea what kind of woods you are talking about. If you are in the kind

of woods that is more open,light from above, you may be able to use large

reflectors to direct light where you want it. You could use white,silver;gold prob-

ably would not be your choice here. With this technique you are not lighting the

actors themselves directly(as in key light.fill light etc.) you are lighting an area

for them to move about and act in. So you pretty much have to accept the light

each individual actor receives from this light. It may create some great shadows

that you will like. Time of day enters in here also and you may have a window

of time for only a few hours. You can choose from a lot of lights to shoot inside

scenes with(Int.). Two good books- American Cinematographer Manual, The

Filmmaker's Handbook. I'm setting up my own website to promote myself as

dp for new filmmakers at -film7productions.com. I will have eventually on this

site,illustrations of lighting techniques and cinematography techniques for new-

bies. I'm only interested in working with new filmmakers. Do not forget that

that you can use babies,5ks,10ks in woods also(you'll need generator). I do not

know what your budget is, but lights are an option in the woods if you want to

use them. Presently building my website.

Greg Gross

Lars.Erik · February 9, 2005

Hey newbie...

since you seem to be so new to everything i'll keep it simple.

- think about the composition, take shots YOU think are good and make sure they can edit together. get close ups. two shots and a total. make a shooting plan for every scene. you don't have to follow it on the set. it just helps you if you get lost...as david mullens says...make sure you have some visual ideas...

- for the lights...difficult. been working in the industry for seven years now and lights are challenging. don't know what kind of film you're making...but an ok way to approach the lights is to see where the natural lights come from. which direction. then try to lift them a bit with lamps. either pro lamps or you can always buy fluorescent lights...not as good at all but they're ok. you can take them out of their sockets, just keep the parts you need to get power in them, then they are lighter and can be taped to walls, ceilings etc. if you have a friend who is an electrician ask him/her how to do it. BUT make sure they are the one's with the purest color. OSRAM 950(daylight 5600K), OSRAM 930 (3200K). That's what they're called in Europe. Just make sure as i said, and i can't express this STRONGLY enough...the one's with the purest color. this will only work for the interior shots though. the ones with lower color pureness is poop...some are greenish other just makes the picture look dull and flat.

- outside is tricky, hmi is the key...but since you have no budget...make sure you have big reflectors...to help you with the dark areas of faces etc. and the dencer the woods the faster the lights will fall. and the greener the woods...well green doesn't bounce light, it eats it up.

- last but not least...focus on your story first and foremost...before cinematography even. (can't believe i'm saying that). but seriously...good cinematography NEVER saves a poorly directed film..but a good directed film can draw the attention away from a poorly shot film.

good luck...

February 9, 2005

Go to filmshooting.com and scroll down the main page and you'll find a link to a great article with ideas on lighting your movie on a budget. It gave me a few ideas and i think this is the exact kinda thing you are looking for.

pkbissen · February 10, 2005

you can get a pretty good image with a pretty basic set up, but you need to know what you're doing. interiors will obviously require the most thought and preperation to get what you are looking for. i've had great success lighting with a couple of china lanterns, some practicals, c-stands, flags, diffusion, gels, filters, etc. but that's my style and it worked for the projects I was directing, DPing, operating, etc.

like others have said, you need to pick up a book on lighting. think about how light looks naturally (it's color, quality, intensity, direction) and how light works dramatically with story. this should help you envision the look for your film. once you have a vision, we can help you.

pkbissen · February 10, 2005

- last but not least...focus on your story first and foremost...before cinematography even. (can't believe i'm saying that). but seriously...good cinematography NEVER saves a poorly directed film..but a good directed film can draw the attention away from a poorly shot film.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

this is probably the best advice you'll get. almost any film instructor will say that the biggest problem with student films is story. hell, most professional filmmakers can't tell a story. once you've got your story nailed down, think about cinematography, wardrobe, locations, pacing, sound, etc. in relation to your story and characters. i find that everything falls into place once i know my characters and story inside out.

pkbissen · February 10, 2005

sorry for the 3 straight responses, but i keep thinking.

one technique for working with available light on interiors i've used is mirrors. i got this technique from Nestor Almendros' book. Anyway, you can use daylight coming through a window by reflecting it off a mirror and bouncing it off the ceiling or a bounce card. The reason you would use this technique is that you don't need to use light fixtures to try to match daylight. you are using real daylight to light your scene!!! obviously, this technique has limit uses because of the logistics of a location, personal style, and if it will work dramatically.

Anyway, if you interested in the possibilities of available light I would look at Nestor Almendros' book, "A Man with a Camera," and I think Kodak has a book on working with available light.

I also recommend watching Days of Heaven. It's a pretty fascinating case study because Almendros DPed the film, but had to leave during production and Haskell Wexler took over as DP and claims to have shot over half the film. Almendros worked as much as possible with available light while Wexler relied more on artificial lighting. Personally, I can't tell who shot what with a few exceptions.

Michael Nash · February 10, 2005

Just skimming this thread so I'm not sure if anyone addressed this:

Regarding a feature done by available light -- yes you can do it, but in addtion to the storytelling be aware that light changes throughout the day, and you may not get through the coverage of a single scene with the same light on all the angles. Even a daytime interior will have different qualities of light throughout the day.