need help with an overhead shot

[pkbissen]

so i drew up an impossible shot that the director fell in love with and I'm trying to see if I can make it happen. I'll be trying to rig the thing on Tuesday to see if it'll work or not, but I'd like some suggestions on how to go about it. this is for a student short film shot on 16mm neg on an Eclair shooting 100 foot mags. I don't have much in terms of grip equipment or budget so please keep that in mind. the location is a small NYC apartment with 8-10 foot ceilings. the camera is meant to be looking straight down from the ceiling.

 

is there any way i can build something to mount the camera to the ceiling? or mount the camera to something being supported by two c-stands? safety is obviously a concern here as well so any solution will need to be able to support the weight of the camera with a 100 foot mag. also the shot is a wide shot so keeping the rigging out of the frame is an issue.

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

Personally I'd get hold of a jib. Then you have the freedom to move the camera around in mid-air, smoothly. Or even if you didn't use any movement on that particular scene, you could always use the movement feature on other scenes.

 

safety is obviously a concern here as well

A student film that is, safe? Wow that's the first I have seen. Unlike me atleast you're being sensible about it.

 

Good luck.

Edited March 20, 2005 by Daniel J. Ashley-Smith

[Jon Rosenbloom]

C-stands won't quite do it for that much weight. If you could get two 8 step ladders and span them w/ a 2"x12" plank, it might work. To attach the camera, you could screw a batten strong-back onto the plank, drill a 3/8" holl through the upright batten, and then screw a 3/8" bolt right into the camera. Don't forget to put a bunch of sandbags on the bottom rungs of the ladders. Are you going to operate??? (Probably not.)

[Thomas Worth]

We had a shot just like this to do on a recent shoot. We went the 8' ladder route, but instead of using wood we used dolly track. Then we just clamped / ratchet strapped a hihat to the track and put the camera up there. It worked really well, even with a 1000' magazine attached to the Arri ST.

 

Here are a few pics of the rig:

 

 

 

[Brent J. Craig]

I had a good laugh when I saw the Arricam ST in your photos. Most of the time an Arri ST is an old 16mm that is nearly obsolete. The Arricam ST is the studio version of Arri's current sync sound 35mm camera.

[pkbissen]

thanks for the help guys. i'll be scouting the location in the next few days to see if i can pull this shot off cheaply and safely. i think i'll be looking at making Thomas' approach work with a wood support instead of the dolly track.

[Thomas Worth]

I had a good laugh when I saw the Arricam ST in your photos. Most of the time an Arri ST is an old 16mm that is nearly obsolete. The Arricam ST is the studio version of Arri's current sync sound 35mm camera.

Haha! Yeah, we really wanted an "Arri ST" but the rental house had rented them all out to big studios, so we got left with a dusty ole' Arricam ST. :lol:

[Adam Frisch FSF]

You always see the stands or the support with jibs or ladderpods. I'd rig it off a polecat/wallbreaker/barracuda/autopole (take your pick according to region) or as Thomas suggested above.

 

BTW, I might add a forth category to my list of Stuff I Hate To Light and that is top shots - since you're up against the floor as a background, they always look flat and have no depth. Naturally this is often compensated by the fact that a top shot is kinda cool. A compromise :rolleyes:

[David Mullen ASC]

Another thing to consider is that shots looking down at a floor can often be faked elsewhere, maybe an apartment with a higher ceiling and an easier place to shoot down from, like an interior balconey.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

You could just rent a jib. The little ones are pretty cheap. If you're shooting 35mm, though, the scale of equipment required to support a bulky camera might preclude this.

 

Phil

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

Plus theres less messing about with a jib.

[pkbissen]

thanks again guys. i'll keep you updated if i pull the shot off. i wanted to cheat the shot and shoot it at my apartment with 12 foot ceiling and plenty of thick piping to rig the camera on, but the director is set on this location. renting more equipment is kind of out of the question because the budget is pretty much spent on 3 zeiss primes, film, and a HD transfer with a colorist.

[Michael Nash]

You always see the stands or the support with jibs or ladderpods. I'd rig it off a polecat/wallbreaker/barracuda/autopole (take your pick according to region) or as Thomas suggested above.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oof, that sounds VERY risky -- I wouldn't trust that with the weight of a camera, especially if there is a person under it.

 

BTW, I might add a forth category to my list of Stuff I Hate To Light and that is top shots - since you're up against the floor as a background, they always look flat and have no depth. Naturally this is often compensated by the fact that a top shot is kinda cool. A compromise :rolleyes:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Just think of the floor like any other background (like a wall). If a wall is too flat, how would you light it differently? You'd change the angle of the light and set cutters and whatnot to break up the light. A floor is no different. You don't have to re-invent the wheel, lighting is always relative to camera. ;)

[Michael Nash]

I always prefer to use a tilt plate for this kind of setup. It gives you just a little more adjustment room and is a little more stable. But sometimes you get forced into using what's at hand.

 

Speaking of which, the dolly track is a perfect example! Good idea, and thanks for the pics!

 

[Riku Naskali]

You could also rig your camera somehow to some beefy lighstand. I've done this many times with an adapter with 2k stud on the other end and 100mm bown on the other end. But you can't look absolutely straight down with this kind of thing. Just a though.