Ridley Scott focal lengths

[David Ellison]

Hi I'm looking for any breakdowns of the early Ridley scott movies (Alien, Blade Runner, Legend, Black Rain) which illustrate from shot to shot which focal lengths were used either in text or image form.

Does anyone know if anything like this exists?

 

Many thanks

[Nicolas Courdouan]

I don't know if what you're looking for exists, I certainly have never seen it but would be very interested in finding something like this, so please keep us posted if you ever find it.

 

From what I know about his methods :

 

I seem to remember that he favors longer focal lengths in general. Sorry for not being able to provide you with a precise quote or website, but if I remember exactly what I read he said that he likes to use lenses from 75mm and beyond.

 

He shoots with multiple camera setups, sometimes as much as 8 cameras for a two-character dialogue scene.

 

There's also an interview of him floating around where he mentions using spherical zoom lenses most of the time. He only used anamorphic on Alien and didn't like it because of how it turned focus pulling into a nightmare (at the time).

 

 

Good luck!

[Francisco Martins]

^ Is correct, except Ridley used anamorphic on Blade Runner instead of cropping, and only started shooting spherical and cropping around the time of Black Rain, the first time he ever did so.

[David Mullen ASC]

He only used anamorphic on Alien and didn't like it because of how it turned focus pulling into a nightmare (at the time).

 

Not true - he eventually switched to Super-35 for that reason, and that he preferred using spherical zooms (which is why it is hard to say what focal lengths he preferred) which are faster (T/2.8 instead of T/4.5) but the following Ridley Scott movies were shot with anamorphic lenses:

 

Alien

Blade Runner

Legend

Thelma & Louise

1492

White Squall

G.I. Jane

Matchstick Men

[Nicolas Courdouan]

My mistake.

 

Here's his exact quote, that I misinterpreted :

 

"I always feel that when a film opens up and it’s wide, it’s kind of nice. I don’t do anamorphic. Alien was anamorphic and it was a nightmare for focus. It was the relatively early days of the anamorphic zoom lens. My focus puller in those days was Adrian Biddle (BSC). He recalibrated the lenses one weekend because for some bizarre reason they were forward-focusing. We couldn’t work out why; it would look sharp through the camera. Today, we tend to use Super 35 spherical, which is faster and easier to keep sharp."

[John Holland]

I dont where you got the quotes about Alien from . But as far as i rememember no zooms were used on that shoot . Not enough light on sets with 100 ASA stock.

[David Mullen ASC]

There are a couple of zooms in "Alien"... I think Ripley's close-up at the end as she finishes her log while petting the cat is a zoom, or maybe it was the shot of her sleeping.

[Nicolas Courdouan]

I dont where you got the quotes about Alien from . But as far as i rememember no zooms were used on that shoot . Not enough light on sets with 100 ASA stock.

 

It's from an interview you can find here : http://www.icgmagazine.com/wordpress/2010/05/26/exposure-ridley-scott/

 

I can remember a couple of zooms in Alien. I wouldn't bet my life on it, but some shots really feel like they were zoomed in.

 

Now I need to watch it again.

[Ignacio Aguilar AEC]

The shot of the facehugger constricting John Hurt's neck in a close-up, as the crew is examining him, has a very clear zoom in. And there are other zoom shots in the movie as well. But I'd say "Alien" was shot wider than most of his pictures, with a 50mm and 75mm lens on the main camera most of the time, and then the occasional 100mm or 135mm lens on the "B" camera. Bear in mind that since "Alien" was shot in the anamorphic format, which for the same angle of view doubles the focal lenght of a spherical lens (i.e. a 50mm anamorphic lens is equivalent in terms of view to a 25mm spherical).

[Sherif Tolba]

John Mathieson, his cinematographer on Gladiator once said in an interview that Ridley can't take his hands of the zoom on all his films, so yes I guess zoom lenses are essential in a Ridley Scott film.

[Giacomo Girolamo]

I know is not about Ridley Scott, but this blog has some post (2 as I remember, about Inglorious Bastards and Prisioners from Deakins) in which analized some iconic shots in a very interesting way. Maybe you found it useful.

 

http://mattscottvisuals.com/blog/2014/7/18/glouriousbasterds

 

Bye!

[Kris Kaspian]

Sorry to revive this decade-old thread, but the discussion is still relevant: I'd love to know what focal-lengths were mostly used for Alien (1979), and this was never established. I want to get a feel for anamorphics used wisely.

I'm planning to shoot on a fully-enclosed four-wall practical set with integrated practical lighting and low ceilings (which was also the situation with Alien). My concern regards how much room to advise the set-designer to provide inside; making the set as claustrophobic as possible, while leaving enough room to frame shots. I intend to shoot anamorphic.

Could anyone here offer their expert-opinion (or best-guess) on what focal-length of anamorphic was used for the shot below?

I know from the August 1979 issue of American Cinematographer that the set for the Nostromo in Alien was "designed in such a way that we were able to take out at any time large sections of walls... although we tried to avoid doing this". So I'm curious about whether most of the movie was shot with wider anamorphic lenses?

I was also interested in anyone's best-guess about this frame from Alien, again specifically regarding the focal-length of the anamorphic lens used. Is it the same one as the previous shot?

Also: Are we looking at Panavision C-series anamorphic primes? If you were pushed to name the two most-used anamorphic focal-lengths on this production, which would you pick? Thanks!

Edited April 18 by Kris Kaspian
Formatting

[Kris Kaspian]

Update: I have been able to evidence, via a photograph, that Alien (1979) appears to have been shot using Panavision C-series anamorphic lenses. Here is a picture of Ridley Scott operating a camera on the Alien set (I have enlarged the lens markings). Can anyone confirm the mounted lens is a match for one of the C-series?

A comparison lens (a 50mm; not an exact match) is also pictured below for reference. Strangely, I could not find any photographs of the other focal-lengths available from Panavision for this lens-type.

There doesn't appear to be a physical-catalog containing any photographs, or any online-photos of the entire lens set with legible markings. Photographs of the 50mm is basically all that exists online. [Source: Panavision]

The only known statement regarding the technical details of the lenses used on Alien comes from David Johnson BSC, who told British Cinematographer magazine that "The film stock was 100 ASA Kodak 5247 and the lenses were wide open at T2.3.-2.8.". [Source: British Cinematographer]

Only the 35mm and 50mm panavision offer T2.3. So we can deduce that one or both of those were among the lenses used in Alien.

Does anyone here know the Panavision C-series well enough to determine what Ridley Scott has mounted on the camera in the first photograph?

Markings on Scott's lens show T2.5, which means it can only be the 75mm; right?  No other C-series has that as its widest aperture. [Source: Panavision]

Any expertise in this area is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Edited April 19 by Kris Kaspian
spelling

[David Mullen ASC]

75mm anamorphic would not be an unusual focal length for a handheld shot, it's like a 37mm-ish in regular 35mm, not too long.

[Dom Jaeger]

Here are some more C series:

None look like the lens in your image, or in some other bts shots I've seen. A C series giveaway is the protrusion on the top for the astigmatiser gear. Actually all older Panavision anamorphics have it.

There is a distinctive knurling in that bts lens which is something found on older spherical lenses like Super Speeds and Ultra Speeds, as well as some zooms. But many lenses have been refurbished over the decades so maybe that knurled "hand focus" grip used to be on some anamorphics too.

This lens pops up a bit, which is longer than any C series, it could be a Panavised Cooke 20-100 with an anamorphic back, making it 40-200.

[Dom Jaeger]

This looks like the same lens.

[Dom Jaeger]

Here’s an anamorphic Cooke 40-200 with a similar knurled focus ring.

[Kris Kaspian]

Thank you for your guidance, David and Dom. Very kind.

I have now been (amazingly) fortunate enough to discuss the lenses used on Alien (1979) with a member of the original camera crew. Very kindly, they provided details which have allowed me to fill in the gaps in the historical record:

Lenses used on Alien (1979):
All lenses were supplied only by Panavision. Here are examples of some of the lenses that are absolutely confirmed to have been used when shooting Alien:

Panavision C series 75mm T2.5
Panavision C series 50mm T2.3
Panavision 50-500mm anamorphic zoom (or very similar)

So, that's the mystery mostly cleared-up. The Panavision 50-500mm anamorphic-zoom does add some ambiguity because (as Dom deciphered earlier in this thread) this zoom may have been a Z10A 50-500mm T5.6 Super Panazoom (technically a Cooke-based spherical zoom with Panavision anamorphic adaptation) Or it may have been an Angenieux Panavision Zoom Anamorphic (APZA). Or it may be another Panavision zoom with a very similar range. 

I haven't taken a good look at either of these zoom lenses to determine precisely what matches behind-the-scenes photos.

Either way, we now have some main focal lengths, and we know the supplier: Panavision.

Thanks again for the help! It inspired me to dig deeper.

Edited April 20 by Kris Kaspian
spelling

[Gerard Dalton]

What a great thread. Good to see it back going after like 15 years lol

but I was reading through it and wondering why would Scott prefer to use zoom lens? What advantages or special quality did they give him specifically in his films?

 

[Dom Jaeger]

16 hours ago, Kris Kaspian said:

The Panavision 50-500mm anamorphic-zoom does add some ambiguity because (as Dom deciphered earlier in this thread) this zoom may have been a Z10A 50-500mm T5.6 Super Panazoom (technically a Cooke-based spherical zoom with Panavision anamorphic adaptation) Or it may have been an Angenieux Panavision Zoom Anamorphic (APZA). Or it may be another Panavision zoom with a very similar range. 

It's a bit hard to tell but I suspect it may have been the 50-500 Super Cine Varotal Cooke, based off the Mk1 25-250 which would have been pretty new in 1979 (released in 1975).

The older, Angenieux based 50-500 looks different I think. Here's a shot of it being used for the famous Jaws dolly zoom in 1974:

 

Here's another Jaws BTS photo showing both a couple of thos zooms and a C series anamorphic sporting what looks like a matte box with that distinctive zebra knurling. You can tell it's a C series by the astigmatiser gear hump on the top of the lens that I mentioned previously. 

[Kris Kaspian]

3 hours ago, Gerard Dalton said:

...wondering why would Scott prefer to use zoom lens? What advantages or special quality did they give him specifically in his films?

Good question. On Alien, a member of the original crew confirmed for me that Scott used a Panaflex (often in handheld mode) as the 'A' camera, pictured here:

Then a Panavision PVSR was used as the 'B' camera on Alien. It was this camera that was used if zooming was required in a shot. Incidentally, there is hardly any zooming-in in Alien.

Here's a catalog shot of this Panavision PVSR, for historical reference. The glorious antithesis of run-and-gun:

Catalog Source: Panavisions of the Future

Apparently Scott's affinity for zoom lenses is not because he likes to zoom-in, during a shot, but is on account of speed-of-setups. It's funny, but Scott just doesn't worship at the altar of primes, although (arguably) his best work was mostly shot with them. This from an interview, years later, with John Mathieson BSC regarding the approach on Gladiator (2000):

Quote

...you better make sure you don’t muck people around by trying out different lenses. “Put the zoom lenses on and we’ll get what we need. It might sound callous, but you’re under pressure...

Two sets of Panavision T1.4 Panaspeed primes were added into the mix, “but rarely came out as it’s all about the zooms with Ridley, because you have to move onto another set-up quickly,” says Mathieson.

Source: British Cinematographer

Edited April 21 by Kris Kaspian

[Kris Kaspian]

2 hours ago, Dom Jaeger said:

It's a bit hard to tell but I suspect it may have been the 50-500 Super Cine Varotal Cooke, based off the Mk1 25-250 which would have been pretty new in 1979 (released in 1975).

Thanks for the great detective work! That's probably it, maybe 'Panavised' in some way.

[Dom Jaeger]

16 hours ago, Kris Kaspian said:

Thanks for the great detective work! That's probably it, maybe 'Panavised' in some way.

Oh they were definitely "Panavised", with completely new housings. Panavision liked to standardise the focus rings at the back of the lens, so they added a rear focus ring with external gear drives and also changed the focus, zoom and aperture ring scales, since the 2x anamorphic adapter at the back changes all those marks. Some were also modified to be remotely motor driven. The mounts were also changed to PV mount.

Later on, the Mark II Cooke 25-250 Varotal was actually released in two variations, one "Panavision style" with a rear focus ring.

Edited April 21 by Dom Jaeger

[Daniel J. Fox]

14 hours ago, Gerard Dalton said:

What a great thread. Good to see it back going after like 15 years lol

but I was reading through it and wondering why would Scott prefer to use zoom lens? What advantages or special quality did they give him specifically in his films?

 

Listen to any of Scott's earlier director's commentaries and he explains at length his preference for using zoom lenses. This goes all the way back to The Duellists, where he was often shooting with a zoom lens.

Remember Scott was taught on the BBC director's course, so his love to zooms (and multiple cameras) can both be traced back to that way of working.

[Sanji Robinson]

To my memory, Ridley Scott often had three cameras set up on a scene. He would personally decide the camera positions and choose the lenses himself, while the DP mainly focused on lighting. So if you’re asking about focal lengths, it gets a bit more complicated.