Gregg MacPherson Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 Hopefully I can be forgiven this completely off topic post. Emirates Team NZ just lost the Americas cup to Oracle Team USA. A problem I have, apart from the disparity in available resource ($), is that there is only one American on the "Team USA" boat. On the Team NZ boat I think they are all Kiwis apart from two Aussis, and they supposedly have strong links with NZ. Putting this as a question, would Oracle have a chance in hell if they couldn't siphon off talent at will from the South Pacific, most notably from NZ? There was one American commentator on the Youtube feed that said the comp should be within national boundaries, meaning that only Americans should be on the American team etc. Brave man. And speaking the nescessary truth. Yes, I',m a sore looser. But did we loose? Did Kiwis in fact win the cup? Russel Couts, the kiwi skipper who won the cup for NZ then defected to Oracle, keeps a very low profile. Cheers, Gregg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Millar Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 Render unto Ceasar? :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted September 25, 2013 Premium Member Share Posted September 25, 2013 Be strong: consider how many players, in the English premier league, are actually from the town after which their club is named. Or from the country it's in. Or the continent. For these reasons and dozens more, sport is for doing, not watching. P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted September 26, 2013 Author Share Posted September 26, 2013 You guys are no comfort at all. Render unto Ceasar? Meaning we should just accept this inevitable thing? If Ceasar had a kiwi accent and decided to go the national boundaries route....meaning if we (NZ) win the cup and make that decision...so what is inevitable? The upshot of national boundaries would be a weakening of most teams, except NZ itself, forcing them to look more creatively for talent and perhaps culture more of their own. The downside is that a large number of kiwis would not get the benefit of working with or for the other teams. This applies from the designers/engineers through to the builders and the sailors. English footy teams being a confused transnational mess? I don't think that the proliferation of these absurd ironies changes their moral or philosophic value at all. It just goes to normalize it, to make it perceieved as less important because it is more common. Cheers, Gregg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Millar Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 I'll throw more out (than I'm obviously prepared to justify after the fact). Why bring this up when 'we' lose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Steven Beverly Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 Hopefully I can be forgiven this completely off topic post. Emirates Team NZ just lost the Americas cup to Oracle Team USA. A problem I have, apart from the disparity in available resource ($), is that there is only one American on the "Team USA" boat. On the Team NZ boat I think they are all Kiwis apart from two Aussis, and they supposedly have strong links with NZ. Putting this as a question, would Oracle have a chance in hell if they couldn't siphon off talent at will from the South Pacific, most notably from NZ? There was one American commentator on the Youtube feed that said the comp should be within national boundaries, meaning that only Americans should be on the American team etc. Brave man. And speaking the nescessary truth. Yes, I',m a sore looser. But did we loose? Did Kiwis in fact win the cup? Russel Couts, the kiwi skipper who won the cup for NZ then defected to Oracle, keeps a very low profile. Cheers, Gregg Haven't you be paying attention to American Republican politics? Win at any cost is the mantra, nay, the canon of what determines a man's success in this great nation of ours. Far be it from me to cast dispersions on a bunch of billionaire playboys that spend millions on important things like having the fastest sailboat in the world as opposed to feeding the destitute, but hey, it's their money, stolen fair and square from America's middle class so why not spend it on such an important, earth changing endeavor as racing a sailboat a few seconds faster than your opponent. CERTAINLY something to dedicate your life to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Wasn't NZ up 8-1? Sorry, my Kiwi friends will kill me, but.....NZ kinda deserves to lose in that scenario. I was living in NZ during the whole "Dirty Denis" fiasco where he used a cat against the giant super boat NZ built. Of course he won easily. The Kiwis were furious. I kept getting yelled at because the Kiwis assumed I was an American!! :D R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted September 27, 2013 Author Share Posted September 27, 2013 With Oracle's comeback streak we may have been destined to loose. Whether or not we deserved to loose is all to do with my whinge above. When a team stands under the name of "Team USA" but their sailors are not Americans. When Oracle's sudden improvement coincides with the arrival of experts and new kit from Core Builders Composites in Warkworth, NZ. I have to wonder, who or what is winning this race? A brand (fake name) or a collection of tallent. I say the latter, and that talent pool is dominated by kiwis. Note: Core Builders Composites in Warkworth, NZ is 100 per cent-owned subsidiary of Oracle, producing the wingsails, foils and appendages for the AC72s. Richard, you should have been wearing your national flag or your "I'm a Canadian" T shirt. Bring on the nationality boundaries / criteria for all involved I say. Perhaps a special dispensation for one of the Team NZ sponsors from Dubai (smiling). Cheers,Gregg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted September 27, 2013 Author Share Posted September 27, 2013 The edit tool wouldn't let me fix my spelling or add that.... There are about eight kiwis on the actual sailing team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Drysdale Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Well, regardless of the winner on the trophy, you could say NZ is the spiritual winner. The AC72s gave some amazing racing on television (sailing is a tough one and is usually more exciting doing than watching) and the boat also featured in Top Gear in one of their races. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted September 27, 2013 Author Share Posted September 27, 2013 Hey Brian, I'm speaking up for the kiwis, but Ben Ainsley was a critical contributor to the Oracle win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 I remember well the first time NZ came very close with KZ7. I was caught up in the fury and cheering for NZ of course. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Duckworth Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 I used to race sailboats [at a very modest level of achievement], and I always felt that the purest form for the America's Cup would be that a boat should be designed, built and crewed by each participating country from within it's own resources. BTW for those who don't know, the "America's" Cup is not named for the USA as a country, but for the name of the first winning boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Gregory Irwin Posted October 6, 2013 Premium Member Share Posted October 6, 2013 Having spent a lifetime racing ocean sailboats all over the world, I know that we Americans (that know the sport) recognize the Kiwis as the best in the world. Dean Barker is one classy skipper! I know that he was heart broken with the loss but he and the team will be back. Cheers to Team NZL! Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted October 6, 2013 Author Share Posted October 6, 2013 (edited) From one Gregory to another (Gregg=Greggory), Thanks for being so gracious in victory. Even is we both know that that victory is confused by the confused definition of the contest teams. For Alan, I don't have any problem wirg what the contest calls itself, but I do have a problem with what the teams call themselves, especially the wining team, Oracle Team USA. This is a fake name. Shame on the owner. Cheers, Gregg. Edited October 6, 2013 by Gregg MacPherson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted October 6, 2013 Author Share Posted October 6, 2013 Sorry for my careless typing, terrible spelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Duckworth Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 There is a movie using the America's Cup as its storyline - "Wind" [TriStar 1992]. Directed by Carroll Ballard, the DP was John Toll. Technically quite accurate, but not boringly so. Not to spoil it, there is a redemption sub-plot and a romantic sub-plot, so something for everybody - well worth watching. For Gregg - you were perhaps hoping for a little "truth in advertizing"??? Cheers, Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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