How much should your High Production Value Short film cost?

[Guest]

Yep, and since you're a foreigner they'll finance you well ahead of any Canadians.

 

http://www.telefilm.ca/en/?q=en

 

R,

[James Steven Beverly]

Well that's understandable, because as you well know Canada doesn't have an ACTUAL film industry as K-beck refuses to acknowledge they're Canadian so yet again, we Yanks have to rescue you by making our own home grown version of inane French art films for export to countries with a critical bad movie deficiency.

[Brett Bailey]

In case anyone is interested.

 

You can see the first episode of my webseries at the bottom with links to others at the top. It has a tank and some really cool props, lot of which are orginal from the 40s. It was really fun to do, not fun to have to force people to watch. Apparently WWII is not in unless your last name is Speilberg. Guess I got that message late. :-(

 

If anything, at least this might give YOU guys an idea of my skills. I want be a director, well really the whole "writer/producer/director" package like I guess everyone else probably wants to be. I had to do all the shots myself because DOP dropped out on day one. Luckily one of my actors turned out to also have some pretty good DOP skills, better then mine. He saved thing from being wideshot central LOL.

 

http://www.tinmachinefilms.com/

 

As others have stated, I was impressed at your job of pulling together the set pieces... especially on a budget. There are a lot of people that can't do it. About the only other project that I can think of is a ~ 50 min film called "God and Country" that was shot on a ~ $5,000 budget.

 

http://www.godandcountrymovie.com/trailer.html

 

Ingenuity is key. This is a visual medium... you have to use your mind's eye with shots and composition. When I work on a script, I see the shots as if I'm viewing the movie within my head, and make annotations.

Edited December 13, 2013 by Brett Bailey

[Brett Bailey]

I've heard the expression, "Never spend your own money." But, let me be candid. It's bull****. A seasoned producer will simply reply, "Why should I invest into your project when you won't?" You can try and "minimize" risk, but this industry is a huge risk by its very own nature. You're going to have some "skin in the game."

[Freya Black]

Very good replies Gentlemen,

 

Ack! *grrr grumble growl*

 

Freya

[Freya Black]

Very good replies Gentlemen,

 

I have half a dozen shorts and a web series under my name. But of course, what does that mean? Nothing to thump my chest about. I also have two failed features under my belt - yes I was that guy, as I said before, thinking "Ooh it's the digital age, I can just get this camera and get some local actors and make a movie and it will be golden!"

 

Almost all of them are dramatic, WWII pieces which no one cares about. I have a real f#$%ing 70 ton German tank roaming around in the first episode of my web series and the most I get is a "neato" from close friends. Most won't even watch it.

 

The first feature I could right a book about, everything went wrong. My van (it was a road trip movie and it was character in the movie) was totaled, one of my actors was deployed in the middle of the movie to Afghanistan for nine months, the other main actor disappeared for three weeks and when he came back refused to tell me what happened to him and shortly disappeared forever a month later, I was shooting guerilla so cops and angry land owners were always a problem

 

Second feature collapsed and I later recycled it's footage into a completely different short.

 

Finishing up my latest short now, but my audio engineer was a fluke - he never checked the levels, never wore his headset and I had made the mistaken of NOT doing sync sound at his his suggestion. All the audio was screwed up, ended up cutting it down to almost no dialogue - which actually makes it better, but it still needs one more scene shot and I've sort of felt it's not worth bothering with.

 

I'm sort at a point where doing another short just seems....unnecessary. Like I'm just delaying the inevitable.

 

Here's the other thing, if your not shelling out money, then every thing is all up in the air. Locations, actors, everything is that is begged/borrowed can be just as easily taken away. I'm goddam tired of people promising me this or that, or to help out or act - the negating and I'm stuck having a nervous breakdown the night before.

 

I worked as PA on Transformers 2 and The Last Airbender. I see how these guys work, none of them care about the movie, being a part of it, they care about MONEY. When I see a movie come into town, I'm just as giddy as school girl. They just eye **(obscenity removed)** it and then call the IATSE agent in town to see if their bringing "out of towners" for this one and if not, if there is anything left. Hell, lot of them don't even watch movies. Most of them, you ask them their favorite movie and it's like "Gladiator" because that was probably the last movie they saw in theater.

 

So it's kind of like, I know I can not just put on a beret and declare that I am going to make the greatest film ever while I stand on my pile poop shorts.

 

But on the other hand, I feel if I make another short all "copy, credit, shooting in one location with two actors and alot of dialogue - with an end result of having to twists someone's arm behind their back to watch it" - then I'm gonna snap :-P LOL

 

Hence my thought of doing an HPV film. Short or not, at least it's something different then the usual "Hey lets film in my basement and use what I can find to make a short film idea" sort of stuff.

 

Keep it coming guys, I've gotten more education here then 15k I paid for my AD in Film ever gave me. :-)

 

Dan

 

 

Did you record on camera sound as well? Maybe you could use something like plural eyes to try and re-sync separate audio to the on camera audio?

 

If you do get a budget together for your next project, then make sound a priority.

 

Well it sounds like you have done an impressive amount of work already. Things often go wrong in movies especially low budget ones. I have heard many stories of actors dropping out or just being a pain in the ass and having to be written out in a car crash and the like! ;) These things happen. I believe that every time you do a project you learn something whether you realise it or not and that learning is really valuable for your next project.

 

Yes doing World War II stuff is a bit like trying to make a movie with your hand tied behind your back or something. It's really impressive what you have achieved but don't forget that people will be comparing your work to similar movies, which these days will probably mean Spielberg as you suggest. To be honest any kind of period drama is just making life really, really difficult for yourself on a low budget like this.

 

Also drama generally is not a popular genre at the moment, there's too much supply and not a whole lot of demand. Comedy is also one to avoid outside of youtube. Youtube is the place for comedy now.

 

Lastly don't forget. An unfinished project is basically worth nothing. You have to complete your project come hell or high water. This is why so many low budget film makers find themselves having to do harsh re-writes on things. Also not finishing your project kind of counts against you more than for you. It's one thing to have a project not be a commercial success and it's quite another to not finish it. In the latter case people are less likely to be commit to future projects because you didn't complete earlier ones.

 

Freya

[Daniel Mooney]

Okay,

So I can narrowed to a number of choices (rather oversimplity it to hell)

A) Make a HPV short film for 8k?

B ) Go all in, use every resource and make a HPV(?) feature for 150k?

C) Give up everything and move to New Zealand to live alone in a mud hut and raise sheep and never have to see another a movie again.

Anyone want to give it a vote?

Edited December 14, 2013 by Daniel Mooney

[Guest]

Okay,

 

So I can narrowed to a number of choices (rather oversimplity it to hell)

 

A) Make a HPV short film for 8k?

 

B ) Go all in, use every resource and make a HPV(?) feature for 150k?

 

C) Give up everything and move to New Zealand to live alone in a mud hut and raise sheep and never have to see another a movie again.

 

Anyone want to give it a vote?

 

I lived in New Zealand for two years, beautiful country, so I vote for "c".

 

R,

[James Steven Beverly]

I'd live in New Zealand if it weren't for all the sheep...I don't need any unfounded rumours. Of course what Richie was doing there for 2 years is anybody's guess. JUST KIDDING! :P

Edited December 14, 2013 by James Steven Beverly

[Guest]

Of course what Richie was doing there for 2 years is anybody's guess.

 

You would not believe me if I told you.

 

R,

[James Steven Beverly]

LOL :lol: I honestly guessing you were shooting sharks.

[Matt Sezer]

I've only been out school for a little bit, but here's my take on the situation:

 

With shorts you're able to get people to work for free or far less than they would on a feature. At the end of the day, a short film is just a weekend, maybe two. Assuming it works with my schedule, I can do actual work during the week and it doesn't really interfere with my life.

 

However, features are totally different. They take up a substantial amount of time during which the cast and crew would normally need to be working to sustain themselves. Additionally, peoples' willingness to help out starts to run dry. I once worked on a 40 minute thesis film where, by the end, the location owner, who let us use the location for free, was getting a bit restless. There's no way he would have been able to stand a feature.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that you can rely on favors for shorts, but not features. This makes features, which cost more because you're shooting more days anyways, exponentially more expensive than shorts.

 

In terms of finding talented actors and crew that won't bail, I always try to develop a relationship and understand why they want to work on my short for little to no money. I'm much more likely to cast a student who has actually read and is excited about my script than a SAG actor that's sick of being in background parts and student films, but can't find anything better. The one thing I wouldn't compromise on is sound. You need to pay.

[Daniel Mooney]

Just wanna get back to it.

Can anyone post BALLPARK figures for HPV productions they've worked on. I know there are disclosure agreements, but if you could just let me know the overall budget and the type of film (short, feature, etc) and the genre I would be very appreciated it.

Once again, more research is still coming down to Person A screaming that it's absurd to to make something more then this much and Person B screaming it's absurd to think of making something for less then this much.

So figures would be nice. Or maybe a website listing figures.

Thanks! Look forward to reading more!

Edited December 27, 2013 by Daniel Mooney

[Djon Scott]

My first post but my budget in short films will most likely be around 5,000-10,500. 80 percent is for renting the equipment that is needed for the films. Feel free to send me an email info@djonscott.com

[Daniel Mooney]

Email sent Djon.

[Aapo Lettinen]

Here in Finland, if everyone gets paid, the budgets for a fiction are usually something between 4000 and 10 000 € per running minute. For example, the budget for about 15 min short could be something between 50 000 and 140 000 €. Really depends on what kind of production, crew, locations, actors, equipment, how much funding is available, etc.

( For a reference, The Finnish Film Foundation has budget information of some of these films, unfortunately running times are not listed in most cases but they are usually in 10 - 20min range, sometimes closer to 30 : " http://ses.fi/en/films/categories/muut-naytelmaelokuvat/ " )

 

I don't know about US prices, could be very different...

[Guest Stephen Murphy]

I've been involved in a few shorts with quite large budgets (for a short). Two examples I'd give are "Coward" which cost approx £130K

and "Mrs. Peppercorn's Magical Reading Room"

which cost approx £40K.

 

While that sounds like a lot of money for a short film, I know of other shorts that have spent a lot more then both of those combined. One of them even won an Oscar. I also know of quite a few shorts that have spent far, far less and won just as many accolades.

 

In my experience I've found shorts tend to fall into several budget categories. The majority are made for between £500 and £3000, then there's the next bracket which is usually between £7000 and £15000, and theres the last bracket which is upwards of £60K.

 

How much you spend is entirey up to you, but it goes without saying that just becase you spend more money doesnt mean you'll make a better film.