hand held with arri sr2/sr3

[claire f]

i'm just ruminating over a semi improvised scene between 2 people i will be shooting in the future, and think i will need to go hand held for part of it. i'm quite a small girl and will be operating the camera (either an Arri SR2 or SR3). Camera shake is inevitable and appropriate for the nature of the scene....but could it just get too crazy with me being not so strong as a big camera man....?

[Annie Wengenroth]

I would say that strength helps, but it's more in how you hold the camera and how you balance yourself too. I had to shoot handheld with one of the older DVCPro models a few months ago and at first I was worried about it, but it actually ended up looking pretty smooth. Don't let anybody ever try to tell you that a certain camera is "too heavy" for you (and sadly, you probably will hear it). I mean yeah, it might be, if you were to just pick it up without thinking about it...but there are ways to work WITH your size instead of against it. If you distribute the weight in a comfortable manner, you should be fine.

[Chance Shirley]

I shoot with an Aaton LTR 54, and I think the handheld footage from it looks much smoother than that from a flyweight camcorder BECAUSE of the Aaton's weight (about 12 pounds, I believe).

 

My girlfriend has shot with the Aaton with no problem, and I doubt you'll have much trouble with an Arri SR (I don't think they're much heaver than the Aaton).

 

Good luck with your shoot...

[Brad Grimmett]

Claire,

Your size doesn't matter that much. What does matter is how much handheld you've done in the past. If you've done very little handheld before (with any camera) your footage may suffer, but if you've done quite a bit of handheld in the past you should be fine. The SR is a pretty light camera, so it's more of a question of how comfortable you are with ANY camera on your shoulder. If you've done very little handheld before then obviously your operating will suffer regardless of what camera you use.

Good luck.

[Rik Andino]

Don't let anybody ever try to tell you that a certain camera is "too heavy" for you (and sadly, you probably will hear it).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think the Mitchell BNCR is too heavy for you. :)

 

 

The Arri SRs are about 15-20lbs depending on how much you stack 'em up.

That's not to heavy for anybody (less than the weight of a toddler)

 

Like Chance I've got an Aaton LTR-54

And it's a beauty to handhold...it's specifically designed for handholding

So you might consider using one of those instead of an Arri SR

 

If you want something with the mobility of a palmcorder...

Try using an Aaton A-minima or an Ikonoskop A-cam.

 

What you gotta concentrate is on your movements...

REHEARSAL REHEARSAL REHEARSAL!

Make sure you get many of these--be ontop of the Dir. to block the actors!

many Dir. think you put the camera on your shoulders

& bang you shoot it and it's good handheld footage take after take...

That's not the case it takes lots of practice.

 

Also to minimize on the shakiness (unless that's what you want)

Try using a pretty wide lens a 9.5mm is pretty good...

Also strip the camera down to just the neccessary bones

And watch out for those 5min or more takes--they're killerS!

 

I once shot handheld with an Arri BL...it was like a 6 min. take

After three takes (although we coulda lived with two!) my back was gone. :o

 

Good Luck

[Josh Hill]

Yes, improvisation is all about rehearsal. Honestly. It's the difference between good improv and bad improv.

 

If you've seen the making of Taxi Driver they talk about this. How DeNiro would never come on the set and just DO something, but he and Scorsese would talk about and rehearse it and go over it and over it. Don't let the director talk you into shooting unrehearsed, spontaneous improv because 90% of actors, even th good ones, aren't going to do it that well.

 

And if it's unrehearsed it's unlikely it's going to be the same everytime and almost impossible to cut together in most cases.

 

I don't think you'll have a problem handholding, though. The heavier the camera the easier it is to handhold because it gives you more resistance. You should probably try to be as much in your knees as possible, don't be stiff and rigid with it.

[claire f]

thanks for ALL the advice! really useful stuff to go away and think about....

 

x

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

The problem is that most film cameras are a complete abortion in handheld mode - the only one I've ever held which I felt was vaguely usable was an Aaton XTR, and even then it's only good from the shoulder. The issue isn't the weight, it's the ergonomics - every film camera I've seen, including the Aaton, lacked even basics like a shoulder pad, so you've got the edges of whatever square lump the designers put on the bottom digging into your shoulder. The bigger problem is having to keep your eye pressed firmly (very firmly in many cases) up against the viewfinder. If you're shooting a low angle, where you'd usually flip open the viewfinder of a video camera and look at it from a distance and hold the camera by the top handle, good luck - film viewfinders don't do that, and most of the cameras have no way of grasping them from above that isn't hopelessly inadequate. SRs have a handle that you can comfortably get two and a half fingers around and you're forced into an excruciating hunched-over position to get your eye into the required position. Forget about shooting really low angles without lying on the floor, and then you can hardly move anyway.

 

It's not about the weight!

 

Phil

[Stuart Brereton]

If you're shooting a low angle, where you'd usually flip open the viewfinder of a video camera and look at it from a distance and hold the camera by the top handle, good luck - film viewfinders don't do that....

 

Forget about shooting really low angles without lying on the floor, and then you can hardly move anyway.

 

It's not about the weight!

Phil

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This is what extension viewfinders are for.

 

I would rather handhold an SR than a DVW 790. That camera is a breeze block with a lens on it :-(

 

Stuart

[Frank DiBugnara]

I remember in the early 90's when smaller Hi-8 Cameras were replacing full-size VHS cameras, I actually preferred the full-size cameras to the smaller ones because bracing the camera on your shoulder can actually help with hand-held. That's why so many after-market hand-held adapters for DV cameras actually make the camera bigger and heavier.

 

On the SRs, I've always like the right hand grip at 90 degrees to the camera's body--looks strange but feels right. Also, a small folded towel or other type of pad on your shoulder will make it feel a whole lot more comfortable.

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

> This is what extension viewfinders are for.

 

More expense, weight, and an even dimmer and more remote image, I'd wager.

 

The problem I have with handholding film cameras is that you can't divorce the thing from your head - no matter what you do, you have to practically stuff your face into the viewfinder just to have it work at all. The ability to grasp a broadcast video camera by the handle and move back from the viewfinder is priceless.

 

> breeze block

 

Yes, but it's a breezeblock with a handle that's the shape of my hand and an underside that's the shape of my shoulder. It weighs about 50% more than a stripped-down SR2 (significantly less than one with all the bits and pieces on it) but feels like it weighs 75% less.

 

> actually preferred the full-size cameras

 

Me too.

 

> Also, a small folded towel or other type of pad on your shoulder

 

... and that's really the best solution that the film world has come up with in their vaunted hundred-year history?

 

Just to make the point, let's consider this image of a filmmaker whose prominence would allow him the pick of the world's equipment, and let's think about what he's chosen to do to a usually very sensibly laid-out video camera.

 

 

Sorry, but am I the only person here who recognises what a preposterously stupid layout that is?

 

Phil

[Brad Grimmett]

 

Sorry, but am I the only person here who recognises what a preposterously stupid layout that is?

 

Phil

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmm, maybe you are.

[Rik Andino]

Hi,

 

The problem I have with handholding film cameras is that you can't divorce the thing from your head - no matter what you do, you have to practically stuff your face into the viewfinder just to have it work at all. The ability to grasp a broadcast video camera by the handle and move back from the viewfinder is priceless.

 

Phil

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well you can always get an onboard monitor and hook it up to the videotap

Then you'll close the viewfinder and you can as you put it...

"Divorce the thing from your head..."

 

Of course it's harder to shoot handheld with a film camera

Than a broadcast video camera, which was designed for handholdability...

 

But would you rather every film look like the network news? Or the Late Show?

 

Most camera opts. have been able to overcome

All the pitfalls of a film camera's ergonomics to shoot fantastic footage...

Why can't you?

[timHealy]

An SR is a great camera, but it is not the best handheld camera. I know because I have one. Strength does become an issue if you are going to be hand held all day. If you are doing one or two shots it will be less of a problem.

 

Aatons are much more comfortable for hand held than SR's. But you can do some things to make the SR more balanced on your shoulder. First a prime lens will be better than a zoom lens like the Zeiss T2 10-100. The 10-100 puts more weight out in front of the camera and that is weight you have to deal with. Same with matte boxes and rods. It may not sound like a lot of weight but over the course of a day it will start to matter. Using the SR handheld, an on board battery helps by putting weight in the back of the camera balancing whatever weight is on the front.

 

Also a left side hand grip helps too (or some sort of hand held device that gives two hands their own handles)

 

Arri used to make an shoulder pad that screwed into the base. That helps take the edge off things too if you can get one.

 

good luck

 

just my 2 cents

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

> Why can't you?

 

I probably could if I wanted to, but I don't think I should have to. This ridiculous circular logic - "film cameras are this shape because it's the shape they've always been" - is just not helpful. There is no reason, absolutely none, not to put a film movement in a chassis the same shape as a video camera. It works better on the shoulder or off, and there's no penalty for putting it on any other kind of mount either.

 

But of course we couldn't possibly do that because of this dogma that it can't look like a video camera!

 

Phil

[Brad Grimmett]

But of course we couldn't possibly do that because of this dogma that it can't look like a video camera!

 

Phil

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I think the real issue here is that there probably won't ever be another 16mm camera designed from scratch. If you want to shoot film then you have a certain amount of choices, so if handholding an SR, or any other film camera, is your biggest concern, then maybe video is the right way to go for you. Either that or you can design your own film camera that is more ergonomic.