Just finished my first 35mm Feature film

[Phil Thompson]

I'd be very interested in hearing more about this story Richard. It's very intriguing.

 

Phil, what do you mean 'There's a lot you're not telling us'.?

[Guest]

Actually it was all done by email I never met them in LA. This was for when Dark Reprieve was a finished film, and ready for sale I was not asking for a pre-buy. They saw the artwork and said, wow..great art, we're very interested. They watched the movie and said, ok we'll buy it. The art I provided was also used for the release.

 

And that my friend was that, the art opened the door and got things rolling.

 

R,

[Phil Thompson]

That's a lovely story Richard and I take my hat off to you. Just out of interest how much did it cost to produce and did you end up making the money back?

[Phil Rhodes]

Phil, what do you mean 'There's a lot you're not telling us'.?

 

I mean that when Richard says things like:

 

 

 

They saw the artwork and said, wow..great art, we're very interested.

 

...there are important things we don't know.

 

No company with the funding to buy movies will look at unsolicited artwork. You won't even be talking to them. They won't say "wow..great art, we're very interested", because they won't even be talking to you. They won't watch the movie, because they'll only watch movies to which they've been personally introduced by someone they know who's done it a lot before.

 

Even opening up a worthwhile conversation with these people is next to impossible, unless you know them. And you don't. There's a lot of things that have to be in place long, long before anyone reaches that point. Otherwise, they'd waste all day every day talking to independent filmmakers with unwatchable dross to sell, and there's no business in that.

 

P

[Phil Thompson]

Ok so Richard, I believe the question is this. How did you get your artwork under their nose. Someone must of said 'my friend Richard has made his one 35mm film' do us a favour and have a look. Is this true Richard?

[Guest]

It broke even on the US advance and a few Canadian TV sales, one in particular from the Super Channel. I have never seen a penny in overages on that movie, 8 years later I keep getting sales reports that show me being in the "negative" with them. Which is very typical I am afraid. I hate to tell you it's most likely the situation you will be in as well if you find a buyer for your film, and if you can get an advance.

 

Sadly, I know several producers who have signed deals in the last two years where advances were part of the deal, and the advances were never paid. There's only a handful of legitimate distributors out there with the cash to pay advances, honour contracts, and forward money to you.

 

Like I said, it would be a 5-6 hour discussion.

 

R,

[Phil Thompson]

So you basically gave the film away for free and didn't make one penny? That's pretty sad but then I guess the flip side is you got to make Against the Wild which is brilliant

[Phil Rhodes]

 

 

So you basically gave the film away for free and didn't make one penny? That's pretty sad

 

It got distributed. That's not sad, that's amazing.

[Guest]

No company with the funding to buy movies will look at unsolicited artwork. You won't even be talking to them. They won't say "wow..great art, we're very interested", because they won't even be talking to you. They won't watch the movie, because they'll only watch movies to which they've been personally introduced by someone they know who's done it a lot before.

 

Even opening up a worthwhile conversation with these people is next to impossible, unless you know them. And you don't. There's a lot of things that have to be in place long, long before anyone reaches that point. Otherwise, they'd waste all day every day talking to independent filmmakers with unwatchable dross to sell, and there's no business in that.

 

P

 

Look Phil, as usual you know everything about everything, and you're an expert on film distribution. Even though you've never made or sold anything. I'm not going to waste much time debating you on this, I have done so in the past, and of course it was a complete waste of time. What's more impressive is how you know my own experiences even better than I do, which is truly remarkable.

 

I will say this, I am not talking about one of the Hollywood majors here like SONY or Universal, I am talking about a small mid range distributor that could pay an advance and get a movie into retail. That's who I went to.

 

Many of these companies are quite approachable, in fact all of them have a "submissions" link on their sites with an email. A smart producer can email them a link to a slick trailer and good artwork, and it may generate a response. Then again, it may not. Fact is.....you don't know.

 

R,

[Phil Thompson]

Sorry I just meant sad in you didn't get any dollar upfront. Distribution is great obviously

[Guest]

So you basically gave the film away for free and didn't make one penny? That's pretty sad but then I guess the flip side is you got to make Against the Wild which is brilliant

 

Well no....I said, I got a US advance and a CDN TV sale, also cash, which more or less got me to the break even point. That's not "free". I have not seen any overages above the advance from the US, that is what I am saying. As all distributors have ways to simply make the money "disappear" once they get their hands on it.

 

R,

[Guest]

Sorry I just meant sad in you didn't get any dollar upfront. Distribution is great obviously

 

Gah, I can see someone is going to have to sit you down for a few hours and explain how movie distribution works :)

 

R,

[Phil Thompson]

Ah gotcha, creative accounting style.

 

Did you sign away all World Wide rights? Any how did you come to be given the cash to make Against the Wild?

[Guest]

Phil, here's a well known direct to DVD distributor in the USA, this is their contact page. Notice where is says, "General Inquiries". You hit that and an email address pops up, in the subject line I would type, "For Acquisitions Dept: New Horror Feature." In the email I would provide a very brief intro with a link to the trailer and the artwork attached:

 

http://www.rljentertainment.com/contact/

 

Now maybe you'll get a response, and maybe you won't. They may look at the trailer and say, it's not for us and simply not respond. Then again, they might respond, one never knows.

 

Fact is, there are dozens of such companies in the US like this, and you can approach them the same way. It takes time and persistence on the part of the filmmaker.

 

R,

[Guest]

Ah gotcha, creative accounting style.

 

Did you sign away all World Wide rights? Any how did you come to be given the cash to make Against the Wild?

 

Against The Wild was a totally different scenario, I had CDN government equity, tax credits, and a couple of pre-sales. The Royal Bank of Canada film finance dept cash flowed the production and my contracts. Before I did Against The Wild I did The Dogfather, which got me into the banking system. The bank also cash flowed all of my recently completed sequel to Against The Wild, which was entirely pre-sold.

 

Now cue Phil to say, see I told you!!! Blah Blah Blah.....

 

I am talking above about my experience with my first low budget movie, not the bank deals and pre-sales that were put in place AFTER I had two movies under my belt as a producer.

 

R,

[Phil Thompson]

Cheers Richard! You're the man! The only issue with our film, is it's not a horror! It's one of those films thats very hard to fit. It's very very very weird, British, not much like it. God knows what they will think but it's worth a try. We're getting good Keyart done so we shall see. Thanks again man

[Guest]

Well that is an example of how an email can be structured.

 

There are a hundred different roads you can go down with this. Try for Cannes, try for Sundance, who knows what will happen??????????

 

R,

[Phil Thompson]

Yeah totally. Did you shoot Dogfather on 35mm?

 

I really like the whole Dogs, nature, kids survival film. You seem to like doing films with Dogs.

Where did that come from?

[Guest]

Oh yes, the Dogfather was 35mm, two cameras in fact and two crews, plus the 435 on set at all times. It was overkill really, I said I would never shoot with two cameras again, and I never have, what a pain.

 

Dog movies Phil? It's only a dog movie when the buyer says....I really need a dog movie. Otherwise, it's a "family film," or a (________) movie. Salesmanship has a lot to do with this, same as selling anything else...cars, shoes....

 

R,

[Phil Thompson]

But you must really like dogs!

[Phil Rhodes]

 

 

who knows what will happen

 

Nah - too easy!

[Guest]

But you must really like dogs!

 

Dogs have been used to sell movies for a 100 years, they do make great movie characters. :)

 

R,

[Guest]

 

Nah - too easy!

 

You're probably right Phil, the failure rate is higher than the success rate. I am not arguing that point with you.

 

But I've seen some crazy things happen in the last 8 years, so I am no longer one to say....there's no way it will happen.

 

I am very persistent, and that is 99% of my success, I simply refuse to quit and go away. Most indie filmmakers simply give up.

 

R,

[Phil Thompson]

I bet you loved Homeward Bound: The Incredible Journey.

 

I want to do a film about a dog that gets accidentally left at a camp site and his family forget about him until they get home, 500 miles later.

 

He basically has to make his way back and has adventures. not very original i know but id like to see that made.

 

especially as dogs can actually find there way home using some in built compass.

[Phil Rhodes]

 

 

I am very persistent, and that is 99% of my success, I simply refuse to quit and go away. Most indie filmmakers simply give up.

 

I once took this attitude with regard to getting something produced. Two and a half years later, I decided that there was persistence, then there was self flagellation. By the time someone has told you "no way, not now, not ever, don't call us again or we'll get a restraining order," and I'm only just kidding, the latter applied. Sometimes the answer is genuinely no. It's something we specialise at in the UK.