Simulating sunset indoor

[Tiago Pimentel]

Definitely agree with you guys. I tested this without any artificial lighting. If I had additional lights, how would they interact with the haze? The idea would be to lift the subject, but I don't want to wash out the haze or make this a no contrast mess. Any tips or tricks I should try? I have 2x 1k fresnels I can rent and try them.

[Michael Rodin]

I'd take PAR64's. Open faces give too much "parasite" light and flare your haze. Reduce front light to minimum. If you absolutely need it (like to add fill to a portrait), flag it off where the beams should be seen.

[Tiago Pimentel]

Thanks Michael. The thing is, I really need to get a little detail on the subject. So you'd point the PAR64 at the subject or would diffuse / bounce it? If pointed straight at the subject, it might be to harsh, yes?

[Michael Rodin]

Haze will reduce contrast and slightly "smear" the dirty beam pattern of a VNSP globe. It'll be still a tiny source with a strong hot spot. You could try a frosted NSP globe instead.

Or a fresnel if you want a single broad beam - the farther away and more powerful, the better. 10Ks are cheap if you have sufficient power on set.

[Tiago Pimentel]

Michael, 2 tungsten balanced PAR64s (the only ones I can get) with CTBs to match, pointed at the subject should help? The haze should diffuse it.

 

The best example I can find to exemplify the effect I'm looking for is this:

 

 

What lights should one use to get this? :)

 

Thanks

Edited August 28, 2017 by Tiago Pimentel

[David Mullen ASC]

If you are talking about the shadows and not the sunlight beam, then the light to increase the ambient detail should be soft and dim, so PARs aren't really the choice unless you bounce one.

 

In the example of the backlit girl kneeling at the bed, the first thing is that you should expose more, it's too underexposed. With more exposure the backlight would bounce off of the bed and provide more shadow detail on the girl's face especially if you use a light-toned bed cover and perhaps move her over a little so more sunlight falls past her upstage shoulder and onto the bed to bounce back up into her face. That low bounce will be warm like the sun.

 

Beyond that, you could do a very soft and dim light for fill that could be cool so that it feels like skylight from another window. That could be a ceiling bounce or it could come from a frontal direction or 3/4, it should be very soft... for example in this case, I'd put a Litemat or Kino -- bluer than the warm sun) through a 6x6 light grid cloth frame with an Light Tools egg crate on the 6x6, or use some black flags.

 

The light would be dimmed just to the point that you can barely see into the shadows.

[David Mullen ASC]

In your example from "A.I.", that effect would likely be done with spot PARs for the sun (though this being on a stage I'm sure everything was bigger) but Kinoflos for the soft fill coming from the right, but any soft light could be created using all sorts of lights. The type of unit for soft light matters less, it's more about the color and softness you want and the most efficient way to soften and then flag the light within the space you have.

[David Mullen ASC]

If you are talking about PARs for the sunlight beam then why would you put CTB gel on them? Even in a daytime location the tungsten PAR would give you a nice warm effect for late afternoon sun if left ungelled.

[David Mullen ASC]

In your two tests the main issue I see is just st that you need to open up another stop on the lens, otherwise they look good. After that you just need to increase the soft cool fill a little more until you get the level of shadow detail you need. Keep in mind that as the sun gets lower in real life, it also gets dimmer, by which I mean not that you should underexposed but that the level of soft ambient cool fill can increase, it doesn't have to look as contrasty as when it is a bit higher.

 

In the example from "A.I." the sunlight is exposed hotter than in your tests.

[Tiago Pimentel]

Thanks David. I can't remember what exposure I had on the lens, but every time I use haze, it really darkens the room a LOT. So maybe I'm using too much? As for the fill light, I could use a tungsten fresnel with CTB through muslin folded twice, perhaps? You mentioned the eggcrate, the idea is to not let the light spill against the haze in the sun?

 

Thanks!

[David Mullen ASC]

You just need to open up the lens a little more, that's all. Haze may darken the key light but it also increases the ambient fill because the backlight actually bounces off of the haze and back into the subject.

 

Yes, you could use tungsten w/ CTB through muslin. The egg crates and/or flags are just to keep the light more directed at the face if necessary to keep some mood, especially if the walls are light-toned. The main thing is to just use the bare minimum to see the face so that you don't overpower the effect of the sun. But imagine if that was a white bed sheet she was kneeling over and the backlight from the sun was exposed enough to have her shadows lit by the bounce back up at her. It would be a "hotter" sunlight effect though.

 

Keep in mind that there is no right or wrong way to depict late afternoon sun because weather conditions and the nature of the room it falls in can create a wide variety of looks, plus as the sun gets lower and redder, it gets dimmer.

[Tiago Pimentel]

Thanks for all the advice guys.

 

Here's my final shot, (still needs some grading tweaks). I reframed it and took the advice to add fill light. I'm happy with how it looks:

 

[David Mullen ASC]

Looks good!

[Justin Hayward]

Very nice.

[Phil Rhodes]

Nothing wrong with that.

[Adam Frisch FSF]

Nice!