non union unit photographer taken off job...

[Simon Wakelin]

Unfortunate: offered to work stills on-set -- my first independent movie for Sony... finally managed to move on from commercial and promo shoots, at least ZI thought so... was offered a flat fee for the 18 day shoot, then after completing first day I hear from the producer that I can no longer be used because I am non union...

 

Question is: doesn't the union now have to offer me membership? If so, what do I tell the producer... any advice would be sincerely appreciated in this uncomfortable position...

[David Mullen ASC]

If a film turns union during production and you are already hired, you can't lose your job for being non-union, but you may be grandfathered in. Talk to the producer and the union rep (Local 600.)

[Simon Wakelin]

...apologies for this neophyte question, but what is the 'local 600'? The producer is willing to help...

thanks for the response,

simon

[Tim Tyler]

http://www.cameraguild.com/

 

http://www.iatse-intl.org/index_flash.html

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

> what is the 'local 600'

 

An outfit designed to ensure that all of the best-paid work is distributed among a small group of people from whom it has extorted lots of money.

 

Snarf, snarf...

 

Phil

[Bob Hayes]

It is not that difficult to get in the camera union. They require 100 days of paid work. 20 years ago union membership was a way to keep control of the money job. Now it is really what you?ve done and who you know.

 

The union also insures the working conditions and hours are safe and that workers are covered with health care. In countries like Canada and the UK most of the film work is done by Union employees. And health care is not paid by the producers

[Stephen Williams]

In countries like Canada and the UK most of the film work is done by Union employees.  And health care is not paid by the producers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Hi,

 

I think the Union is fairly dead in the UK now.

Phil?

 

Stephen

[Simon Wakelin]

...not that difficult to get into the union someone says above: I guess so... 100 days on music videos & commercials over 3 years? I can *just about* scramble that together. Proving those days is another matter -- as a photographer for variety/american cinematographer you're not on the call sheet & shoot for magazines not prod companies/studios/labels etc... (plus I don't even know if that counts toward the tally?)

 

I have to say that the fees are a bit ridiculous. Last time I checked it was around 7,000 dollars to join -- easy if you're a dentist or lawyer to pay, but a humble photographer schmoozing his ass off around town to get freelance work with a baby on the way? Well, I just can't afford it... do they have loans/bursaries/help for serious snappers that want in?

 

Thanks for your comments thus far,

Simon

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

The UK union, BECTU, still exists, but it's a pale shadow.

 

$7000 to join a union can be nothing but extortion.

 

Phil

[Stephen Williams]

Hi,

 

The UK union, BECTU, still exists, but it's a pale shadow.

 

Phil

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Hi,

 

But I think they lost the plot when video postproduction came along!

 

I am an overseas member, I just have to pay £30 a year instead of 1% of earnings.

 

Stephen

[David Mullen ASC]

There has to be some sort of minimum experience requirement, so 100 days over a three-year period doesn't seem unreasonable -- and it should take some years of work and experience to acquire to weed out beginners.

 

As for documentation, that's tough if you're a freelancer not paid as an employee using a payroll company, which is why you want to gather any documentation WHILE you are working for the future.

 

The fee is high, but then, the union salaries are higher so it sort of pays off if you keep working union jobs. Plus there is health coverage and a pension plan you pay into. I certainly didn't start earning a real living at shooting until I joined the union, so it was a good investment. On the other hand, I didn't bother joining until I had worked for a decade and had shot over twenty-three features (not making much money at it, by the way.) So I joined at the time in my career when it made sense to join, when I was starting to be offered union feature work. There was no point before that when I was being offered under 1-mil features that were non-union.

 

You can pay it off in installments over a two-year period I believe.

 

You just have to decide how much you want this job. It may not be worth it at this point in your life.

[Stephen Williams]

There has to be some sort of minimum experience requirement, so 100 days over a three-year period doesn't seem unreasonable -- and it should take some years of work and experience to acquire to weed out beginners.

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Hi,

 

When I first started working in London in 1978 it was a 'closed shop' . I was working as a trainee/loader and for 4 years I could not sign neg reports. There was a real risk the labs would not develop the film! I had to join the animation section as an 'Oxberry Cameraman' as that was the only way in!

 

Stephen

[Phil Rhodes]

Hi,

 

At least there was a way in...

 

Phil

[Guest]

"The union also insures the working conditions and hours are safe and that workers are covered with health care. In countries like Canada and the UK most of the film work is done by Union employees. And health care is not paid by the producers"

 

For guys that work in the USA and are union I have a question about this.

 

How much health coverage do you get while you are working on a film as a union employee?

 

If you are diagnosed with cancer while working on the film and you will need long care treatment, what happens then? Are you covered even if you where hired for only 15 weeks?

 

How do freelance film workers in general manage their health care situation?

 

R,

[David Mullen ASC]

A union member "banks" working hours that translate into whether one has worked enough to initially gain access to the health plan. If enough time passes where one hasn't worked, then one can lose access to the plan, although I'm sure there is an exemption for loss of work due to illness.

 

The health coverage is not tied to the period of the shoot -- that's more like workers compensation insurance, which is different and something the production carries. In other words, if you get injured on the set, then the production pays. I don't think your health plan even gets involved, but if it did, then the insurance claim & production would cover the costs, not the plan.

 

But overall, you are generally covered by the union health insurance plan continuously, regardless of when you stop and start work. But like I said, you have to have a certain number of hours "banked" to have access to the plan.

 

Non-union freelancers obviously struggle in the U.S. to get health insurance, the biggest problem with having no national health plan. We have a system that assumes most people will be covered by the corporation they work for, which means a lot of people go around with no health coverage, unless they are poor enough, young enough, or old enough to qualify for Medicare or Medicaid (can't recall the difference right now.) A Great Society entitlement "safety net" program that some Republicans want to strangle, by the way. Bush wants to shift the costs more to the states, knowing that it comes at a time when the states want to cut spending on it because they can't afford it, etc. The end result will be a slow death by neglect and starvation through underfunding, at which point they will claim that it's proof that entitlements don't work, yadda, yadda...

 

Of course, the flip side to this is that health care costs are seriously over the top in this country for various reasons, so simply spending more money on public health care isn't really going to be a good long-term solution either.

 

I was covered for years by my wife's plan from being a UCLA employee and then a City of LA employee, etc. There was one year where she went abroad to study so I bought a basic Blue Cross "disaster" plan, i.e. I just wanted low-cost coverage with a high deductible in case I got hospitalized or needed expensive medical care. I think I paid about $100/month for that bare-bones coverage, for one year.

[Patrick Neary]

As for documentation, that's tough if you're a freelancer not paid as an employee using a payroll company, which is why you want to gather any documentation WHILE you are working for the future.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

my understanding is that 1099 work doesn't count toward union days (needed to join), that all of the work needs to be as an employee of a company, not as an independent contractor, is this accurate?

[David Mullen ASC]

my understanding is that 1099 work doesn't count toward union days (needed to join), that all of the work needs to be as an employee of a company, not as an independent contractor, is this accurate?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No, I've never heard that. The point is to prove that you worked in that category and got paid, so what difference does it make how you got paid? It's just easier to prove if you've got a payroll company supplying the documentation. As an independent contractor, you just run the risk of them not counting some of the days you list.

 

Anyway, I don't recall that particular qualifier in the requirements list. The only qualifier I remember is that the work had to be done in the U.S. or its territories.

[Brad Grimmett]

my understanding is that 1099 work doesn't count toward union days (needed to join), that all of the work needs to be as an employee of a company, not as an independent contractor, is this accurate?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, that's not true. What you end up having to do is get a letter from the producer as well as a copy of the paycheck from the job. It's quite a bit easier to document a payroll job as it's MORE documented than a 1099 job, and therefore contract services seems to accept payroll jobs a bit quicker. A bunch of the days that I used when I joined were a 1099 from a feature. I had call sheets, copies of paychecks, and a letter from the producer to prove that I had done the work. People DO try to lie to get in the union, so having things like callsheets as backup proof of work is very important.

[Peter J DeCrescenzo]

... For guys that work in the USA and are union I have a question about this. ... How do freelance film workers in general manage their health care situation?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hi Richard: I'm not union & I'm a freelancer in California. I've had Kaiser Permanente individual health insurance for several years. It currently costs $317/month USD for fairly basic coverage.

 

http://www.kaiserpermanente.org/

 

I have no idea if it's a good deal or not. I hope I never have to use it. Knock on wood.

 

All the best,

 

- Peter DeCrescenzo

Edited July 19, 2005 by Peter DeCrescenzo

[Guest]

$317.00 a month WOW!

 

If you have to pay that it's not really worth a Canadian moving down there to save money on taxes. Less tax, but then you have to pay for health insurance, so the money is gone either way.

 

With your coverage, do you have co-pays as well? If you break your arm are you 100% covered or do also pay some out of pocket? What happens with some thing huge like a brain tumor that will need years of treatment?

 

Thanks

R,

[Peter J DeCrescenzo]

$317.00 a month WOW! If you have to pay that it's not really worth a Canadian moving down there to save money on taxes. Less tax, but then you have to pay for health insurance, so the money is gone either way. With your coverage, do you have co-pays as well? If you break your arm are you 100% covered or do also pay some out of pocket? What happens with some thing huge like a brain tumor that will need years of treatment?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Richard: I'm no expert, and short of typing out my policy, allow me to generalize: Private health insurance in the US varies in cost & coverage depending on the vendor, location, your age, possibly your astrological sign & IQ, among other things. For example, my provider (Kaiser) offers about half a dozen different plans for individuals, each with varying coverage limits, co-pay amounts, restrictions on which doctors you can use, and so forth. It makes my head hurt just thinking about it; I think I need to sit down now. Hopefully I won't need a doctor ... :)

 

(Health insurance provided through an employer is usually less expensive or "free" compared to an individual plan like I have. But employees have been "paying" more & more for less & less health benefits in the past few years; this seems to be a trend. Plus when you leave a job, you usually lose you health coverage, until you get another job. Ex-employees sometimes qualify for temporary health insurance ["COBRA"] between jobs. Part-time employees usually don't qualify for employer-subsidized health insurance at all. For these and other reasons, many US workers pay for their own health insurance out of their own pocket, just so they don't have to deal with the B.S., and a very large percentage of working Americans don't have any health insurance or qualify for health services at all -- private or public.)

 

I got the policy I have so I'm mostly covered for catostrophic medical issues, and pay slightly more out-of-pocket than some for routine things (like checkups, perscriptions, etc.) In general, the more you pay per month, the less you pay for services/medicines when rendered. It's a crap-shoot.

 

Like a lot of things in the US, we pay a lot for "choice", or at least the illusion of choice. However, like blue jeans, how many different "styles" of health insurance are really necessary, and at what point does having so much variety become unsustainable? I suspect we reached the point of unsustainability a long time ago.

 

All the best,

 

- Peter DeCrescenzo

Edited July 19, 2005 by Peter DeCrescenzo

[shootist]

A union member "banks" working hours that translate into whether one has worked enough to initially gain access to the health plan. If enough time passes where one hasn't worked, then one can lose access to the plan, although I'm sure there is an exemption for loss of work due to illness.

 

But overall, you are generally covered by the union health insurance plan continuously, regardless of when you stop and start work. But like I said, you have to have a certain number of hours "banked" to have access to the plan.

 

 

 

And what happens to banked hours if you don't quite make the minimum required to get coverage? According to one BA, Larry Gianeschi for IATSE 600, the money YOU earned goes into the general hospital plan fund to help lower the costs for all the participants (which you are not)!

So the rich get richer off the poor who don't quite qualify for health benefits. Very brotherly of the IA to look out for the little guy like that.

 

There was a Flexplan that allowed EVERYBODY to participate regardless of how much or how little they worked. The IATSE is killing that plan.

[Tim Hall]

There has to be some sort of minimum experience requirement, so 100 days over a three-year period doesn't seem unreasonable -- and it should take some years of work and experience to acquire to weed out beginners.

 

As for documentation, that's tough if you're a freelancer not paid as an employee using a payroll company, which is why you want to gather any documentation WHILE you are working for the future.

 

The fee is high, but then, the union salaries are higher so it sort of pays off if you keep working union jobs. Plus there is health coverage and a pension plan you pay into. I certainly didn't start earning a real living at shooting until I joined the union, so it was a good investment.  On the other hand, I didn't bother joining until I had worked for a decade and had shot over twenty-three features (not making much money at it, by the way.)  So I joined at the time in my career when it made sense to join, when I was starting to be offered union feature work. There was no point before that when I was being offered under 1-mil features that were non-union.

 

You can pay it off in installments over a two-year period I believe.

 

You just have to decide how much you want this job.  It may not be worth it at this point in your life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

David;

Does work as newspaper photographer or work on a national magazine qualify for any of those 100 days?

Been doing this for over 10-years now.

[David Mullen ASC]

David;

Does work as newspaper photographer or work on a national magazine qualify for any of those 100 days?

Been doing this for over 10-years now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't know, but I suspect that for joining as a unit stills photographer, they would be expecting the 100 days to be as a unit stills photographer, just as if you want to join as a 1st AC, your 100 days would be as a 1st AC, operators for their operating work, etc.

 

But I'm sure your experience would get you plenty of work on non-union films as a unit stills photographer, and then you could apply those days.

 

The truth is that you probably aren't going to be getting a lot of offers for union work as a unit stills photographer if you haven't been doing that, unless you are a famous photographer. There's a reason why non-union experience tends to pave the way for union entrance.

[Jonathan Spear]

Simon,

 

Just visited your website and I'm really digging your work. Awesome stuff.

"Gallery 1" is amazing.