Sony Venice experience

Michael Ognisanti · December 7, 2018

Hello,

I'm interested in hearing from people who've shot with the Venice. I have a shoot coming up and might use it. I've heard great things and saw Claudio Miranda's tests which looked great (maybe that has something to do with the DP though :) ).

I love the dual ISO and 1 stop ND increments. To utilize full frame I know you need the R7 recorder which makes it quite the load. Doesn't seem like this would work on gimbals.

But it sounds like its a completely new sensor which should be a good thing i'm guessing.

Thoughts?

Michael

Robin R Probyn · December 8, 2018

If the camera has the FF license you can shoot FF 6k without the R7 in XAVC 17-9 1-1.85.. need the anamorphic license for 3-2..I believe.

Robin R Probyn · December 9, 2018

The 6k is down sampled to 4K ..

David Mullen ASC · December 9, 2018

It's not clear in the literature if all 4K recording modes are a crop of the 6K sensor or if you can, for example, record 6K raw and a 4K XAVC downsample at the same time:

https://pro.sony/ue_US/products/digital-cinema-cameras/venice#ProductSpecificationsBlock-venice

https://pro.sony/en_IE/products/digital-cinema-cameras/venice

Robin R Probyn · December 10, 2018

AFAIK you can't Rec 6K raw and 4K XAVC at the same time.. one or the other.. need the license for any 6K ..OCN can be 6K .. with R7 recorder attached ..otherwise its FF 6K down sampled to 4K for XAVC internal .. without license 4k would be a crop of the 6K sensor.. as I know it and info from the FB 5/55 Venice page..

David Mullen ASC · December 10, 2018

Are you sure it is downsampled and not a crop to 4K? I kept searching online to clarify that. Sony charts and specs just show 4K as a sensor crop from 6K. I can't find any verification that when you record 4K, it is a downsample of the full-frame 6K sensor.

Robin R Probyn · December 10, 2018

From the Sony info you posted.. firmware update being V2 I presume . and you would need the 6K license ..

6K high resolution*

The stunning full 6K resolution of the camera can be recorded directly in X-OCN (16-bit eXtended tonal range Original Camera Negative) file format. Also, XAVC 4K can be captured onto SxS cards while still sampling from the full 6K resolution of the sensor.

*Firmware update required.

Robin R Probyn · December 10, 2018

I think that was part of the Venice thing.. the trend towards over sampled 4K.. or true 4K as some say after debayer.. I think personally they should have sold the camera as 6K out of the box without having to buy the license .. but I guess they want to keep the price down.. and it is very good value ..for people who only need 4K..

Mark Kenfield · December 10, 2018

It's great that it has a downsampled 4k option. With bayer sensors, that really does seem to be the key to "filling in the gaps" image quality wise.

I just wish they'd implement XAVC's full spec of 12-bit 4:4:4. 6K downsampled to a 'true' 12-bit 4:4:4 4k image (with the comfortable data load and easy editing that XAVC provides) would make for a terrific onboard mastering codec for all but the most demanding requirements.

Canon have the same stupid limitation with their C700. 5.7k downsampled to a 'true' 4k... but then they throw away half of the chroma information like Sony with 4:2:2 recording.

Robin R Probyn · December 10, 2018

I guess for that people would be recording to the "new" ish X OCN 16 bit codec.. the LT version is pretty much the same data rate as ProRes HQ .. !

Phil Rhodes · December 10, 2018

Am I the only person who's a little impatient with the endless rebranding of various flavours of MPEG-4 under pointless, needlessly-incompatible corporate terminology?

XAVC, AVC-Intra and AVCHD, and their multitudinous sub-sub-subtypes, are all essentially MPEG-4 AVC; any compliant decoder will decode them, except the ones in the nonlinear edit suites tend to be not so compliant and designed to handle only one variant.

Grr.

I'm not sure what Sony's OCN baby is, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was yet another AVC rebranding. Anyone know?

P

Mark Kenfield · December 10, 2018

Am I the only person who's a little impatient with the endless rebranding of various flavours of MPEG-4 under pointless, needlessly-incompatible corporate terminology?

XAVC, AVC-Intra and AVCHD, and their multitudinous sub-sub-subtypes, are all essentially MPEG-4 AVC; any compliant decoder will decode them, except the ones in the nonlinear edit suites tend to be not so compliant and designed to handle only one variant.

And to top it off, none of them offer the simple (superior) drag-and-drop nature of ye olde Prores.

Michael Ognisanti · December 10, 2018

It's great that it has a downsampled 4k option. With bayer sensors, that really does seem to be the key to "filling in the gaps" image quality wise.

I just wish they'd implement XAVC's full spec of 12-bit 4:4:4. 6K downsampled to a 'true' 12-bit 4:4:4 4k image (with the comfortable data load and easy editing that XAVC provides) would make for a terrific onboard mastering codec for all but the most demanding requirements.

Canon have the same stupid limitation with their C700. 5.7k downsampled to a 'true' 4k... but then they throw away half of the chroma information like Sony with 4:2:2 recording.

I agree. XAVC 12-bit should be available on this camera. As of now it only allows for 16-bit OCN or 10 bit XAVC 4K/ProRes HD. Nothing in between

Miguel Angel · March 5, 2019

I used it the other day in two really small commercials and I wanted to share my Venice experience

First of all, I have to say that it took me a while to get used to the extremely clean look of the image. After many years looking through the viewfinder of an Alexa looking at the image that the Venice offers to you is quite a shock! Specially in my case because I'm used to shooting with the Alexa at 3200ASA ha! so seeing a nice, clean image was like: WOW!

For starters the viewfinder is, probably, the best I've looked through in digital times (the EVF2 from the LF is not as good as the Venice one.. although it is quite an improvement from the EVF1)

The shock that I got was probably because of the lenses, I used a set of Cooke S2s because those were the only ones that the rental house had available at the time.

I don't really like the S2s or S4 lenses but they worked fine.

Homestore + More - Home (Dad)

Homestore + More - Home (Daughter)

I shot with it at 2500ASA and also at 500ASA.

I was extremely pleased at how the camera worked and the way it is designed, I had wanted to use it on the field for a while and it lived up to the expectations.

For what is worth, I think that I prefer the texture from the images at 2500ASA and it is probably a camera that I'd love to underexpose a lot (this one was not the right project to underexpose the image unfortunately!) because there is a LOT of information in the shadows, as in.. infinite information :D, more than what I'm used to having anyways.

I was going to use it during the next weekend for a short-film but unfortunately they don't have it available.

I'm going to go to Madrid soon and I think that I'm going to get the camera out for a day / night to see what it can really do, coupled with the right lenses, it has to give beautiful results.

Have a lovely day!

Ryan Constantino · March 10, 2019

I used it the other day in two really small commercials and I wanted to share my Venice experience

Kinda off topic but how did you have it rigged for those two videos you posted? Were you using an e-z rig for the handheld stuff? Or was your build light enough to do shoulder?

Miguel Angel · March 10, 2019

Kinda off topic but how did you have it rigged for those two videos you posted? Were you using an e-z rig for the handheld stuff? Or was your build light enough to do shoulder?

Hi Ryan!

All of it was hand-held and I only used the easyrig in one shot (the one of the kid looking at the flowers) because the flower pot was in between the kid and myself and I couldn't hold the camera at that height without the easyrig!

Other than that, everything was either on my shoulder or just grabbing the camera by the handle (which I tend to do quite a lot nowadays).

The Venice is very compact and even though it is pretty solid, it is very well balanced while on the shoulder.

In fact, it is much better balanced than an Alexa Mini or any other Alexas.

Have a lovey day!

Robin R Probyn · March 10, 2019

Miguel .. glad you liked the Venice .. I think Sony has eventually got it right.. its taken them a while !!.. yes the VF is amazing .. you can also use them on the f5/55 ..(not fs7).. a lot better than the original Sony OLED VF.. now if only they were half the price.. !! I think it might be still on there web site.. but TopTeks in the UK did a comparison test of Alexa Mini F55. and Venice weight wise as a hand held camera..

Robin R Probyn · March 10, 2019

Here it is

https://www.topteks.com/the-contenders-weigh-in/

Ryan Constantino · March 11, 2019

On 3/10/2019 at 1:35 AM, Miguel Angel said:

All of it was hand-held and I only used the easyrig in one shot

Thanks very much for the info! I think I'd like to try the venice on a shoot and see how I like it.

Kevin Descheemaeker · April 20, 2019

1

On 3/5/2019 at 1:36 AM, Miguel Angel said:

The shock that I got was probably because of the lenses, I used a set of Cooke S2s because those were the only ones that the rental house had available at the time.

Hey Miguel so I assume you shot in 4K with the Venice and not the full frame 6K as the lenses wouldn't cover the sensor?