Philip Forrest Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 I just scored yet another Filmo, this time a 70KRM. Camera is complete with the cover plate for the magazine port and the correct door. I have pleny of lenses and viewfinder objectives, but I will be searching for 400ft magazines and all the bits that allow shooting this camera with this much film. I can't find a manual or a list of parts which I'll need to use the bigger magazines. I've read here that the spring motor has enough power to drive the 400ft takeup but I'll be needing a few other parts to make this happen. I'm also hoping to rig up an adjustable speed cordless screwdriver to the motor port so I'm not limited to shooting tethered to a wall by a cord. Any tips for collecting all the pieces of this kit or for using would be awesome. Thanks all, Phil Forrest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Simon Wyss Posted August 14, 2019 Premium Member Share Posted August 14, 2019 You need and endless coil spring (B. & H. call it spring belt), they are commonly with the mags. Mags must have the attaching screw. Inside you have daylight spools or darkroom loads on core, for the latter you need intermediate hubs between spool shaft and film core. The 70-DL manual says: “An electric motor is necessary for magazine operation, as the spring motor is not so designed.” Next item is the loading clip to depress the plunger and hold the film valves open. The motors run off 12 Volt direct current, so you can connect it to any such energy source. Very rarely you encounter a 110 Volt motor, rather if a Filmo was used for TV shoots, it’ll then be a synchronous machine on 60 cycles per second alternating current. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Forrest Posted August 16, 2019 Author Share Posted August 16, 2019 (edited) The 70-KRM arrived today and is in better condition than I thought it would be in. It pulls a full 22 feet per wind, runs about 55 seconds at 16 frames/sec. It is either a modified 70-H with the shutter and geared turret assembly from a HR/KRM added or it is the latter camera with sprockets for 2R film. The shutter and gate are HR/KRM as they only have one pulldown claw. I bought it knowing that it was modifiied at some point but a few of these modifications are baffling to me. I'm including links to photos of the inside of the camera, the mod to the door inside as well as the 5-pin connector and the plate which reads "Triad Model 619B..." There are two rollers inside which prevent use of a 100ft reel. The camera came with a 50ft reel inside as well as a weird special purpose lens adapter which ads a crosshair reticle between a C mount lens and the camera itself. All of the speeds below 32 frames/sec have been run through and seem really close. The film counter works well and can be reset correctly. I didn't receive any magazines with this camera but I'll be shopping for them later. I do have a question of how the magazine spring belt is looped around the drive wheel on the camera though. http://gallery.leica-users.org/d/475807-2/20190816_160622.jpg http://gallery.leica-users.org/d/475811-2/20190816_160505.jpg http://gallery.leica-users.org/d/475815-2/IMG_20190816_151043479.jpg http://gallery.leica-users.org/d/475819-2/IMG_20190816_151124246.jpg Any insight or tips are always appreciated. Thanks all, Phil Forrest Edited August 16, 2019 by Philip Forrest url correction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Forrest Posted September 4, 2019 Author Share Posted September 4, 2019 I received a spring belt for my 70-KRM, hooked it up to my 400ft magzine and much to my surprise, the camera is driving the magazine the wrong way. So, the takeup side winds emulsion out. Add to that, the fact that it feels like it is pulling too much as well. This camera works perfectly using the internal takeup but when a magazine is attached, it always loses the lower loop after about 20 feet. I'm using some 2R white leader for this testing, by the way. Both of the valves in the magazine open fine using the little loading plunger as well as when the camera door keys them open. The velvet is just a tiny bit wrinked but it doesn't drag the film as far as I can tell though a tiny bit of drag over a few hundred frames might affect this I suppose. So I have two issues to take care of: fix the drive pulley to get it turning the correct way, and if the loop problem continues, figure out why. Phil Forrest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Forrest Posted September 4, 2019 Author Share Posted September 4, 2019 Belay my last. The drive pulley moves correctly. So do these mags wind emulsion out on takeup? Thanks all, Phil Forrest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Simon Wyss Posted September 4, 2019 Premium Member Share Posted September 4, 2019 (edited) Re. the modification we read on page 449 of the JSMPTE for June 1960: What timing would have been accomplished is out of my knowledge. Traid made modifications to Bell & Howell GSAP cameras in view of an event timer, pulse-operated interval runs, strip or “streak” operation, and 100 fps function. The additional rollers speak for high-speed operation. Edited September 4, 2019 by Simon Wyss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Forrest Posted September 4, 2019 Author Share Posted September 4, 2019 Simon, Thanks for that info. This camera still has 8-64 frames/sec available. I'm still not sure what those rollers are for. The parts in the door are little light housings which project a bit of light through a slit right at the level of the "upper" sprocket holes (the side which is not perforated on 1R film.) I got the magazine takeup sorted out. I needed to stretch the spring since the mag doesn't have a clutch. A fellow member here helped me out with that. Phil Forrest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Forrest Posted September 14, 2019 Author Share Posted September 14, 2019 I want to find a Filmo cradle. The thing that the camera could sit on to strengthen the rigidity of the whole unit and make it all more stable on the tripod. I have only seen ad photos of the thing for the most part, but last week I saw one in an eBay ad sitting under a 70-KRM. I don't know what Bell and Howell called this thing nor how many were ever produced. They seem rare as hen's teeth though. So I'm just looking for the name of it so I can do some proper searching online. Thanks all, Phil Forrest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Simon Wyss Posted September 14, 2019 Premium Member Share Posted September 14, 2019 I can make you one, aluminum, lined with velvet. Write me, if interested. Am already at one for the EMEL cameras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Colcord Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 (edited) On 9/4/2019 at 8:25 AM, Simon Wyss said: Traid made modifications to Bell & Howell GSAP cameras in view of an event timer, pulse-operated interval runs, strip or “streak” operation, and 100 fps function. One of these modified Filmos for pulse-sync operation just came up on eBay: Filmo Pulse Camera Edited December 4, 2019 by Webster C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Cunningham Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 I was able to get a Bell and Howell 70HR set that includes the camera, two lenses and finder objectives, 400ft magazine, electric motor, cables, winding key, hand crank, and case from a local seller. The camera works well after adding a drop of oil to the various oil points. The electric motor works independently, but when attaching to the camera (with the run button locked down), it doesn't run the camera. I've searched the posts (and Google) for an answer to the following questions, but haven't found anything. 1) Any ideas as to why the electric motor isn't running the camera when connected and powered on? 2) Is there any area on the Bell and Howell electric motor (P/N C01002) that requires lubrication? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Forrest Posted March 30, 2021 Author Share Posted March 30, 2021 If I recall correctly, the Filmo motors all have a viscous clutch. They may need a grease of certain viscosity and lubricity. I'm sure someone with more experience with the 400ft system will chime in. Phil Forrest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Colcord Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 Don, I have a motor/Filmo combo with the exact same issue. Something in that clutch/shaft area isn't working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Cunningham Posted April 1, 2021 Share Posted April 1, 2021 45 minutes ago, Webster Colcord said: Don, I have a motor/Filmo combo with the exact same issue. Something in that clutch/shaft area isn't working. Now, just to have it fixed! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Cunningham Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 I tested the camera with a daylight load of Tri-X I had on hand to ensure there were no issues with the unit and also to see how the two included lenses looked. This was my first experience using a non-reflex camera and there were a couple of times I adjusted the incorrect lens. It appears to run well, just need to do a good cleaning of the gate and get the electric motor repaired for the magazine. https://youtu.be/ocNPKjtWwCw 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Simon Wyss Posted June 4, 2021 Premium Member Share Posted June 4, 2021 That camera runs extremely well. The frame line is of so constant width that the image alone could be sold for 35mm. You may perhaps want to have your lenses cleaned. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Owens Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 Hello, I too find myself with a Filmo HR complete with 400’ mag, and am now searching for a drive spring/belt for the magazine to operate as intended. I won’t be surprised if I’ll need to go through the same process regarding the motoized operation components/modifications. Any and all information about locating the drive spring (first!), and further details will be greatly appreciated! Thank everyone in advance! - Mike Owens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Simon Wyss Posted February 7, 2023 Premium Member Share Posted February 7, 2023 I think you’ll have more luck finding Filmo 70 magazine spring belts than me in Europe. At total failure a spring factory can make you those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Forrest Posted February 7, 2023 Author Share Posted February 7, 2023 Give me a day or two and I'll find my stash of belts. I can get you the part #. Phil Forrest 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Cunningham Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 I was looking into this yesterday as I have the EXACT same issue as mentioned earlier: On 9/4/2019 at 7:41 AM, Philip Forrest said: This camera works perfectly using the internal takeup but when a magazine is attached, it always loses the lower loop after about 20 feet. My footage in the magazine looks OK initially but eventually begins to get some vertical smearing. Picture looks stable for the most part, but as the end of the 400 feet gets closer, frame jumps start to occur. I'll post some video of the issue soon. Do spring belts ever need replacing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Simon Wyss Posted February 7, 2023 Premium Member Share Posted February 7, 2023 Only if overstretched. Basically, these are simply long pull springs, the ends hooked (better close-bent) together. Mostly made of patented wire (drawn fast and air-hardened). The proof is simple: relaxed the windings should be in touch, a closed coil. I am quite sure that some can still be found. Might be worthwhile to call Magna-Tech of Miami. https://magna-tech.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Cunningham Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 (edited) Here is a short video showing the issue I wrote about above when using the external motor and magazine. The first shot is from the first 100 feet of the 300 foot load. The second shot is toward the end of the 400 foot load. Perhaps the belt is having a difficult time keeping up with the weight of the film takeup? Edited February 9, 2023 by Don Cunningham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Cunningham Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 A screenshot of the slipping at the end of the footage. Note the claw scratch between the perfs and the frame line out of place. This intensity is only during the final 40 or so feet of film Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Simon Wyss Posted February 9, 2023 Premium Member Share Posted February 9, 2023 Transport failure, camera needs investigation by a technician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Cunningham Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 Just when using the external motor and magazine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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