Angenieux zoom 12-120 zoom

[Oliver wilkins]

Hi Guys,

Another rather beautiful vintage lens that might interest you. Glass looks great.

Angenieux zoom 12-120 f2.5

I'm not sure of the mount and I think this will only cover 16mm, anyone know more about it?

Maybe £350? ono

Best,

Ollie

[Oliver wilkins]

This guy seems to have the same lens working on Sony e-mount. I guess he's using clear image zoom. Might give you an idea...

 

[Phil Rhodes]

I wonder how much of an Ursa Mini that would cover. Did that live on the Aaton?

P

[Oliver wilkins]

Hey Phil,

I can't quite recall but I think they cover super 16 in part of the range.

I think there is a mount that kind of fits it to the aaton, I'll check and see if I can try to rig it tomorrow and do a coverage test.

Best

Ollie

[Phil Rhodes]

Hmm, if we can get it to PL...

[Dom Jaeger]

5 hours ago, Oliver wilkins said:

Hi Guys,

Another rather beautiful vintage lens that might interest you. Glass looks great.

Angenieux zoom 12-120 f2.5

I'm not sure of the mount and I think this will only cover 16mm, anyone know more about it?

Maybe £350? ono

 

It's a standard 16mm lens, from memory it vignettes below about 30mm on S16 size sensor areas. The mount looks like Arri Standard, easy to adapt to PL. By the way, it's f/2.2 not f/2.5, the scale may have T stops as well as f stops marked, but the front ring is marked 1:2.2 which is the geometric (f stop) aperture.

These are very common zooms, you'll find tons on ebay. They sell for anywhere from $100 to $500 for the standard (not the T2.1 HEC) version. This one looks in pretty good nick, so you might get your asking price.

 

[Phil Rhodes]

Reportedly the Ursa Mini Pro's sensor crop mode (equivalent to what Sony call Clear Image Zoom) is slightly smaller than a standard 16 frame, but I'd prefer to try it and see as I don't have that based on first party information.

P

[Oliver wilkins]

Phil,

Always happy to meet up if you wanna take it for a test drive.

Best

Ollie

[Phil Rhodes]

41 minutes ago, Oliver wilkins said:

Phil,

Always happy to meet up if you wanna take it for a test drive.

Best

Ollie

I might take you up on that, but we'd have to have a PL adaptor available. What've you got?

11 hours ago, Dom Jaeger said:

 

It's a standard 16mm lens, from memory it vignettes below about 30mm on S16 size sensor areas. 

 

Is this one of these situations where you can put an extender on the back and sacrifice speed for coverage, much in the same way you'd flip in the extender on a B4 lens?

[Oliver wilkins]

13 minutes ago, Phil Rhodes said:

I might take you up on that, but we'd have to have a PL adaptor available. What've you got?

Is this one of these situations where you can put an extender on the back and sacrifice speed for coverage, much in the same way you'd flip in the extender on a B4 lens?

I’m afraid I’m not sure about the extender and no PL mount, I can put on the LTR and have a look at the coverage, might give us some idea.

Seems it will set fairly snuggly in my Arrival bayonet mount to Aaron adaptor - although it won’t lock in place. Will try it.

 

Best

 

Ollie

 

 

 

[Phil Rhodes]

I think the problem here is that an Arri Standard to PL mount adapter is going to be worth at least what the lens is, which is the problem I've hit before when trying to do something like this.

[Oliver wilkins]

1 hour ago, Phil Rhodes said:

I think the problem here is that an Arri Standard to PL mount adapter is going to be worth at least what the lens is, which is the problem I've hit before when trying to do something like this.

Hi Phil,

I put it on the Aaton Super 16 and ran it through the zoom, it actually seems surprisingly good. Video here...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rw6jx2407vea07g/Angenieux-coverage.mov?dl=0

Excuse the additional vignetting of the iPhone filming through eye piece, hope it gives you an idea.

 

Best,

Ollie

 

 

[Oliver wilkins]

I think this will get you to e-mount for £50...

https://cvp.com/product/metabones_mb_c-e-ch1

[Oliver wilkins]

or even this one at £15...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fotodiox-Lens-Mount-Adapter-Mount/dp/B003Y32238

This discussion seems to suggest to PL may be a challenge...

 

[Dom Jaeger]

4 hours ago, Phil Rhodes said:

Is this one of these situations where you can put an extender on the back and sacrifice speed for coverage, much in the same way you'd flip in the extender on a B4 lens?

In theory yes, but I suspect you’ll have trouble finding a focal length extender that has room for the rear protrusion of a 12-120 Angenieux. I recall trying an Optex doubler on one once and it didn’t fit. 
 

47 minutes ago, Oliver wilkins said:

or even this one at £15...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fotodiox-Lens-Mount-Adapter-Mount/dp/B003Y32238

This discussion seems to suggest to PL may be a challenge...

Those are links about C mount adapters, your lens looks to be Arri Standard (or Arri S) mount.

There are fairly cheap Arri S to PL adapters available. In the case of a zoom like this the mount does not need to rotate as it does with some older lenses and there is no focussing group sliding inside the mount either as is the case with prime lenses, so you can safely use the simplest type with grub screws, like this:

https://rafcamera.com/arri-bayonet-to-arri-pl-adapter

They work on Arri Bayonet as well as Standard mount.

1 hour ago, Oliver wilkins said:

I put it on the Aaton Super 16 and ran it through the zoom, it actually seems surprisingly good. Video here...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rw6jx2407vea07g/Angenieux-coverage.mov?dl=0

The vignetting will be worst at the wide end, at infinity focus with the iris stopped down. 

[Phil Rhodes]

29 minutes ago, Dom Jaeger said:

In theory yes, but I suspect you’ll have trouble finding a focal length extender that has room for the rear protrusion of a 12-120 Angenieux. I recall trying an Optex doubler on one once and it didn’t fit. 

Thanks for that; your experience is very valuable here. Purely as a thought experiment, is this something that could be done, were one willing to pull the optics from an extender and machine the relevant parts, or an absolutely not possible?

Anyway, if anyone's got an Arri S or Arri B to PL adaptor we could borrow I'd love to try this out and see how it behaves, but I hesitate to spend the money on a maybe.

That optical viewfinder is making me nostalgic, though.

[Oliver wilkins]

Thanks Dom and Phil, that's super useful.

I shall try it again following the stopping down / infinity advice. My mind is stretching trying to understand the mechanics behind that. ?

The Aaton may not be with me long though, the lens however I think will be around for a bit Phil so just holler if you want to try anything.

bEst,

Ollie

 

[Oliver wilkins]

1 hour ago, Dom Jaeger said:

Those are links about C mount adapters, your lens looks to be Arri Standard (or Arri S) mount.

Hi Dom,

Here's a couple more shots of the mount. It's only got the one notch. Do you think it's definitely Arri-B?

thanks

Ollie

[Oliver wilkins]

This made me think c-mount...

http://www.bolexcollector.com/lenses/60angenieux.html

[Phil Rhodes]

C mount is a one-inch-diameter thread; it's much smaller than that. And visibly threaded.

You find them on little security camera lenses; they certainly were used on 16mm but that's not it.

[Oliver wilkins]

33 minutes ago, Phil Rhodes said:

 

C mount is a one-inch-diameter thread; it's much smaller than that. And visibly threaded.

You find them on little security camera lenses; they certainly were used on 16mm but that's not it.

 

 

Thanks for clearing that up Phil 

[Dom Jaeger]

3 hours ago, Oliver wilkins said:

Here's a couple more shots of the mount. It's only got the one notch. Do you think it's definitely Arri-B?

It’s Arri S not B. The protruding aluminium bit should be 41mm in diameter. Arri S is a straight cylinder with a groove near the end and a slot in the back. Google images should give you examples.
Your mount looks a little different to the Arri S mounts I’ve seen on other Angenieux zooms  (they were often black), but these zooms were made for decades and adapted for different mounts by shops all over the world so it’s not unusual to see variations.
 

5 hours ago, Phil Rhodes said:

Purely as a thought experiment, is this something that could be done, were one willing to pull the optics from an extender and machine the relevant parts, or an absolutely not possible?

Some extender designs allow for more clearance between the extender optics and the rear of the lens, or the optics can be adjusted within the extender (usually to fine tune the performance rather than clear the lens), but I’ve found that generally if the optics in an extender foul on a particular lens there’s nothing you can do. 

At any rate the cost of an extender is a lot more than the zoom in question so for the sake of a few extra mm of coverage (a doubler would make the wide end 24mm, the zoom covers from around 30mm anyway) I don’t think it’s worth exploring.
 

[Oliver wilkins]

8 hours ago, Dom Jaeger said:

It’s Arri S not B. The protruding aluminium bit should be 41mm in diameter. Arri S is a straight cylinder with a groove near the end and a slot in the back.

Thanks Dom, that's great to clarify. My curiosity is being piqued. I might try to find a Arri S to Sony-E  if I don't get any takers. It is a lovely piece of glass. Old gear is just built to last.

[Duncan Brown]

On 5/27/2021 at 1:13 PM, Dom Jaeger said:

In theory yes, but I suspect you’ll have trouble finding a focal length extender that has room for the rear protrusion of a 12-120 Angenieux. I recall trying an Optex doubler on one once and it didn’t fit. 
 

I have an Angenieux 12-120 in Arri-S mount and a Colcine doubler, and can verify this wouldn't work in that setup either.  The Arri-S mount needs about 18mm of depth just by itself, and the Colcine adapter has about 20mm of depth before you hit the retaining ring for the first element.  Any lens with rear elements that protrude more than a smidge aren't going to fit.

I must say, the rear of my lens looks nothing like yours.  It does look like yours have some sort of aftermarket/custom mount adaptation from whatever it originally was, to Arri-S.

Duncan

[Oliver wilkins]

On 5/29/2021 at 5:41 PM, Duncan Brown said:

I have an Angenieux 12-120 in Arri-S mount and a Colcine doubler, and can verify this wouldn't work in that setup either.  The Arri-S mount needs about 18mm of depth just by itself, and the Colcine adapter has about 20mm of depth before you hit the retaining ring for the first element.  Any lens with rear elements that protrude more than a smidge aren't going to fit.

I must say, the rear of my lens looks nothing like yours.  It does look like yours have some sort of aftermarket/custom mount adaptation from whatever it originally was, to Arri-S.

Duncan

Hi Duncan,

Thanks for the message. I've ordered as Arri S to e-mount in the hope I can try it on my Sony. Would be nice to get it working without too much adaptation.

O