500t or 250D +1 for EDM/Rave club lighting

[Niels kakelveld]

Some time ago I shot a club with pretty dark but varied lighting in Super 8 with my Canon 1014 Electronic Auto Zoom.

The meter was all the way to f1,4 at the dance floor sequences so I am pretty pleased it turned out reasonable.

The blue grain is a bit troublesome though, so I wonder if using 250D and pushing it 1 or two stops would have been better than 500t in this case?

I don't know what club lighting is usually balanced to, tungsten or daylight?

Here is an ungraded sample:

 

Edited November 2, 2022 by Niels kakelveld
Clearer title

[Robert Houllahan]

I think the lighting is all over the place color temp wise, I would / have shot allot of similar stuff on both 500t and 250d and I think 500t with superspeed glass is the way to go.

I would recommend a 1 stop push on the 500t even.

[Niels kakelveld]

3 hours ago, Robert Houllahan said:

I think the lighting is all over the place color temp wise, I would / have shot allot of similar stuff on both 500t and 250d and I think 500t with superspeed glass is the way to go.

I would recommend a 1 stop push on the 500t even.

I've also got a bauer s 209 xl with an F1,2 lens and 225 degree shutter. And a Canon 1014 XL-S with a f1,4 lens and 220 degree shutter option. Those should bring in a bit more light compared to the 1014 E f1,4 150 degree shutter.

 

The Bauer only goes up to 160 iso unfortunately so anything shot with decent lighting for 500t is going to be horribly exposed. Just for the darkest scenes then. I still need to find an eyecup for it.

 

I read that the Beaulie 6/7/9008S/pro cameras have a mirror on the shutter instead of a split prism so are the brightest S8 camera's around because you don't loos 1/2-1 stop of light to the splitter.

[Robert Houllahan]

7 hours ago, Niels kakelveld said:

The Bauer only goes up to 160 iso unfortunately so anything shot with decent lighting for 500t is going to be horribly exposed. Just for the darkest scenes then. I still need to find an eyecup for it.

 

I read that the Beaulie 6/7/9008S/pro cameras have a mirror on the shutter instead of a split prism so are the brightest S8 camera's around because you don't loos 1/2-1 stop of light to the splitter.

The Bauer has a manual exposure dial and you can just bypass the auto exposure and keep it wide open.

The Beauleau cameras have an oscillating mirror shutter instead of a beam splitter I believe and thus will get more light to the film for sure.

[Tyler Purcell]

I think with 500T you'd be fine. Just correct in post. 

I love my Beaulieu 6008, super fast lens, built in meter and all manual if you want. 

Also as a side note, I'm also involved in the community depicted... Been shooting a doc about it for years.

Here is some dance footage we shoot on S16 using 500T, a super fast prime (1.3) and a bit of correction in post: 

 

[Niels kakelveld]

11 hours ago, Tyler Purcell said:

I think with 500T you'd be fine. Just correct in post. 

I love my Beaulieu 6008, super fast lens, built in meter and all manual if you want. 

Also as a side note, I'm also involved in the community depicted... Been shooting a doc about it for years.

Here is some dance footage we shoot on S16 using 500T, a super fast prime (1.3) and a bit of correction in post: 

 

Wowow, that looks super cool! Amazing job. At which rating did you shoot that clip, 500 or something else?

How did you get such smooth moving shots?

I am sure the 16mm helps with perceived brightness compared to S8.

 

I want a Beaulie X008 so bad, or one of their 16mm cameras but they are so so expensive. Currently editing a video with the two cartridges that I shot. I took 4 with me but two didn't advance beyond the first frame ?

 

[Niels kakelveld]

And how do you focus in such darkness so well? I had a lot of trouble with my Canon 1024 auto zoom electronic, was really hard to see.

[Tyler Purcell]

7 hours ago, Niels kakelveld said:

Wowow, that looks super cool! Amazing job. At which rating did you shoot that clip, 500 or something else?

I processed it normal and just ran the lens all the way open. My meter was under, but I knew it would come out. 

7 hours ago, Niels kakelveld said:

How did you get such smooth moving shots?

Steadicam 

7 hours ago, Niels kakelveld said:

I am sure the 16mm helps with perceived brightness compared to S8.

Most super 8 cameras have slowish lenses and beam splitters. By the time the light hits the film, it's not very bright. You need a mirror reflex camera like a Beaulieu to get all the light onto the film. I just got one and the results have been much better. The 6008 model I got, also has a shutter speed adjustment for low light situations, so that helps even more. I haven't tried to shoot in low light, but maybe for Christmas time. 

7 hours ago, Niels kakelveld said:

I want a Beaulie X008 so bad, or one of their 16mm cameras but they are so so expensive. Currently editing a video with the two cartridges that I shot. I took 4 with me but two didn't advance beyond the first frame ?

The 4006 is a great entry level camera tho, you should be able to score one for much less than a 6008. 

If you have advance issues in the future, it's because the film gets kind sticky in the cartridge, just take you finger, push down on the film and wind the cartridge. I usually do this on all new rolls (though I use a tooth pick to prevent dirt getting onto the film) as a way to help get the cartridge started. I find them to be very sticky from the factory, they don't want to run film when fresh. 

6 hours ago, Niels kakelveld said:

And how do you focus in such darkness so well? I had a lot of trouble with my Canon 1024 auto zoom electronic, was really hard to see.

I didn't, there are a lot of out of focus shots. With a wide angle lens, yea just can't tell When you run Steadicam, you just get use to how far back you need to be from the subject, set the focus and keep your distance. I also used a monitor (video tap on the camera) for the majority of the shooting and it's actually a bit brighter than the viewfinder. 

[Tyler Purcell]

Sorry for the upside down image, the metadata is busted. Umm, but yea you can see me on the left side with the rig just walking around. The bottom camera is the rig disassembled. 

 

Edited November 4, 2022 by Tyler Purcell

[Tyler Purcell]

This has more BTS stuff related to the documentary production. 
 

 

[Jefta Varwijk]

On 11/2/2022 at 4:45 PM, Niels kakelveld said:

Some time ago I shot a club with pretty dark but varied lighting in Super 8 with my Canon 1014 Electronic Auto Zoom.

The meter was all the way to f1,4 at the dance floor sequences so I am pretty pleased it turned out reasonable.

The blue grain is a bit troublesome though, so I wonder if using 250D and pushing it 1 or two stops would have been better than 500t in this case?

I don't know what club lighting is usually balanced to, tungsten or daylight?

Here is an ungraded sample:

 

So a late reply here but, i’d go 500t without push but get a dpx scan. Push -and i’ve pushed quite a bit- i feel is better if you want to make film feel more like film. 500t can sometimes be just very very beautiful, and clean (when scanned and graded right). 
 

I also did a club-film test setting of sorts, see https://vimeo.com/750146954/ab163375d9 (not a perfect grade btw)

Light-temp i wouldnt worry about, just shoot it, and 500t will give you most. combining it with 1.3 type lenses should just about get you there. 
 

i also recognise the blue noise. That’s a tungsten balance thing bút also something that with the right grade, doesnt really need to be there when treated right. Key (in my mind) is push the blacks a tad, go doooown with the mids and do whatever with the highs.

my 2 cents. 
 

 

[Niels kakelveld]

Which camera do you recon will get more light on the film, a Canon 1014 XL-S at 18fps and 220 degree shutter, or a Beaulieu 6008 S at 18fps and Low Light mode? Both at 1,4.

From what I have read the Canon 1014 XL-S has a much longer time where the film is exposed compared to the Beaulieu, but the latter doesn't lose any light to a beam splitter.

 

I will probably take both with me anyways on the next convention. The Canon might be easier to focus because it has a split prism and the Beaulieu just has a ground glass in the middle.

 

Edited March 18, 2023 by Niels kakelveld