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How do I know when my Leicina Super has reached the end of the cartridge?


Dave Keen
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The skinny indicator window on the left side of the viewfinder showed all red, indicating roughly the final 1/4 of the 50' cartridge left. But i just felt 'this is going too long.' The sound didn't really change and there was no hard stop as with a tape recorder, but I'm new to all this so I wouldn't know.

So I finally opened it, and indeed the EXPOSED was printed there, indicating it's finished. But now I wonder just how long I'd been grabbing shots, the motor chugging away, capturing nothing.

More to the point, might something be wrong? Surely continuing to operate the motor while it's no longer turning the film isn't good...?

DEK

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There should be a run flag in the viewfinder. One of my cameras had a little moving pointer, another, a green LED which stopped flashing when the film ran out. If there's some symbol or marker in there that's not doing anything, perhaps that's your problem. You can test it with no cartridge- it should be moving/flashing or whatever it's supposed to.

It shouldn't cause any damage- there's a friction clutch to disconnect the mechanism from the drive dog when the cartridge spindle stops.

Anyway you get an idea for how long a cartridge lasts- so many 5- or 10- second shots in a 200-second cartridge (at 18) or 150 at 24.

Edit: I've just read the manual -this one?

https://www.super8camera.com/manuals/leicina-super-rt1-manual.pdf

it says the transport stops when the film runs out. I'm not sure if that means that the motor stops dead- that would be unusual. It doesn't mention a run indicator. But we've already had some imprecise language with the shutter angle, haven't we?

 

Edited by Mark Dunn
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From what you said, I get some important and helpful points. That it would be unusual for the motor to stop once the film runs out is comforting. That suggests it's ok that it keeps going. The Manual you've got there is for the RT-1. I have the previous model, the basic Leicina Super. 

I'd mentioned "the skinny indicator window on the left side of the viewfinder": that's what you refer to as the run flag. That runs well. We'll see when it gets developed. ]

Funnily, I contacted Leica in the US, trying to find a manual for this model. They said nobody anywhere knows anything, email the German Leica HQ. I did, and nobody there knows anything.  

 

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Does the indicator bar look any different, or behave differently, when the film ends? Can't think what it might do- a change in opacity, or movement, or something. There was always some way of indicating when the film ran out. I could always tell by the sound, but that would be something you have to get used to.

There was always some visual way of indicating when the film ran out IME. But then I only ever used three or four cameras.

I think a camera that actually stopped when the film ran out would have been very prone to stoppages. It would have had to detect the load on the drive clutch, and with a Super-8 cart that's quite variable.

 

Edited by Mark Dunn
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4 hours ago, Mark Dunn said:

Does the indicator bar look any different, or behave differently, when the film ends? Can't think what it might do- a change in opacity, or movement, or something. There was always some way of indicating when the film ran out. I could always tell by the sound, but that would be something you have to get used to.

On the Leicina Super there's no indication of the film ending point. There's only the red portion of the run flag has filled the entire vertical frame made for it on the left of the viewfinder, indicating you have roughly 1/4 of the reel left. Since I did testing both in 24 and 18 I can't really know how much time that is. 

As far as I can tell. 

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3 hours ago, Joerg Polzfusz said:

What type of film was it? There are some cameras that require a correctly marked end of the film (with cuttings on both sides of the film) to show the „end of film“-sign in the viewfinder. And some Non-Kodak-films had only some part of the perforation cut out and not the other side.

This was a cartridge of Kodak Vision 3 500T. As far as I know, there's no sign in viewfinder, but there could be and i haven't seen it illuminate yet. Very scant info on this camera online. Actually, zero info haha.

 

Even the folks at Leica US have no idea. Even the folks at Leica GERMANY HQ have no idea. 

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Those cameras are 50 years old. So everyone that was working on these cameras is not working anymore. Plus, Leitz got restructured several times - with the „Leitz Cameras“ part becoming a company of its own, … . Hence, it could be that all Super8-related information stayed with Leitz rather than their spin-off Leica.

Nevertheless, as the camera is 50 years old, the chances are high that something is broken in the camera. E.g. the mechanism that shows the red indicator in the viewfinder at the end of the film might need some oil or might be stuck/broken.

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That's a bit tiresome. You'll have to get really expert at hearing when the film ends. Or just get a feeling for your shot length. A quarter of the cart is 50sec at 18, so not very helpful.

How good is your exterior footage counter? The one on my old camera is marked off every 10 feet and the divisions are about 1/4" apart, so you can gauge the length remaining to a couple of feet. A foot is 4 seconds at 18.

The sound should change quite a bit when the claw is no longer pulling on the perfs, but running fresh film just to listen to it is a bit expensive these days. Try listening on a projector if you have one.

You can try to stop the drive dog rotating and listen to the change in sound as well.

Edited by Mark Dunn
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A clever and specific electronic solution exists made by Bernhard Kipperer called "Cine Assist Lee". It interfaces directly with the unique 9-pin sockets utilizied by te Leicina Super, RT1 and Special Super 8 cameras. It is a tiny digital/analog controller that supports a frame accurate counter, i.e. 

http://cineassist.filmcurl.com/

1. Start, stop and delay your film recording automatically
2. Remote control your camera with your phone
3. Record independent but still synchronized live sound
4. Autonomously output digital data onto film
5. Create advanced time lapses and speed ramps
6. Leicina "T" mode re:normal/long timelapse modes
7. Shutter opening/speed control, e.g. 0.5s to minutes exposure per frame. 
8. Accurate frame counter
9. OLED display
10. Monitor battery levels
11. Analyze speed deviations
12. USB connection 
13. Bluetooth (Android)
14. Timer 
15. Pre-programmed shot lengths

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1 hour ago, Nicholas Kovats said:

A clever and specific electronic solution exists made by Bernhard Kipperer called "Cine Assist Lee". It interfaces directly with the unique 9-pin sockets utilizied by te Leicina Super, RT1 and Special Super 8 cameras. It is a tiny digital/analog controller that supports a frame accurate counter, i.e. 

http://cineassist.filmcurl.com/

1. Start, stop and delay your film recording automatically
2. Remote control your camera with your phone
3. Record independent but still synchronized live sound
4. Autonomously output digital data onto film
5. Create advanced time lapses and speed ramps
6. Leicina "T" mode re:normal/long timelapse modes
7. Shutter opening/speed control, e.g. 0.5s to minutes exposure per frame. 
8. Accurate frame counter
9. OLED display
10. Monitor battery levels
11. Analyze speed deviations
12. USB connection 
13. Bluetooth (Android)
14. Timer 
15. Pre-programmed shot lengths

Woh, that's amazing. I'm gonna chegidout. Thanks!

 

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