Evan Samaras Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 Hello all! I recently picked up an M-86. and at first it was completely unresponsive. After some help, I discovered a lock that controlled the power. Without the key, I decided to just bypass the electrical. Now we have power! Solve one problem, encounter another, right? I plan on finding some official servicing, but I'd like to see how far I can take this myself. This Is where I currently now: Upon powering up the Editor I noticed the take up plate on Sound 1 was spinning uncontrollably. Also, the feed plate on the Pix track seemed to go from 0 to 100 way too fast, and subsequently the film spilled onto the floor before It had a chance to go through the gate and get taken up on the other side. Naturally, I decided to dive into the machine, clean out some dust, and play with some connections. Well, the pick up plate for Sound 1 is no longer spinning uncontrollably. Feed plate for the Pix track Is still having trouble regulating speed, so film still spills onto the floor unless I apply some pressure to the plate. And third, there is now a horrid noise coming from the motor beneath Sound Head 2. I'll keep playing around, but would appreciate any pointers anyone could provide. Thanks in advance! Evan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Samaras Posted April 7, 2023 Author Share Posted April 7, 2023 An extremely quick update... As it turns out, I was threading up the film in B wind instead of A wind. Supply is moving along just fine now! I have disconnected power from the motor on Sound Head 2 as it was making a terrible noise. I suppose I will need to remove it and inspect it better. What are the chance of replacing the motor? hah! I also noticed the Sound Speed and Lock buttons no longer light up. The adventure continues! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted April 7, 2023 Share Posted April 7, 2023 I have a couple of those. I'm fairly sure they are M-86. One is for parts and I may have some other parts. Do you need a motor? Where is it in the machine exactly? Do you have the manuals? Will look in again when I have time. Gregg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Samaras Posted April 7, 2023 Author Share Posted April 7, 2023 7 hours ago, Gregg MacPherson said: I have a couple of those. I'm fairly sure they are M-86. One is for parts and I may have some other parts. Do you need a motor? Where is it in the machine exactly? Do you have the manuals? Will look in again when I have time. Gregg. Hey Gregg, I am currently searching for the manuals. A friend of mine is digging around and thinks he may have one. The sound head motor is beneath the pick up. Two screws releases the section, and one can lift it to find a motor beneath. See the attached photos. The motor seems to have seized on this one. The heads will turn smoothly when off. Once I start up the machine, the heads freeze, then a loud rumbling comes from the motor, and nothing spins. I will try to swap pieces to test that it is the motor itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Dunn Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 (edited) Sorry not to be the bearer of better news, but if those timing belts are anything like Steenbeck ones, I think you had better start looking for replacements. The dark colour means they are about to tear themselves to shreds. You will be able to mark them with a fingernail. If this has already happened this would account for the lack of transport. Edited April 9, 2023 by Mark Dunn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 Short of time just now, so quickly... I had the same problems years ago. All were solved by replacing IC chips on the slot in circuit boards in the main stack. Finding spare boards that are good, finding the manual that details how they work, having a friend who understands this old tech, would all be mana from heaven. On Marks Point. The black belts in mine were the good ones. The spare parts were that black, rubbery material, and it was lasting well over time. There were also belts made of a translucent yellowy urethane material that aged, cracked, stripped teeth easily and seemed a waste of time. Misbehaving motor due to faulty IC chip(s) in a board was the main cause of damaged belts. The sound belts were short and I never had much problems. The belts for the picture head were long, of different lengths that had been used for the same job, by setting up different paths. You may find replacement belts. And they may not cost that much to have made. Imperial I'm sure. There was a guy on eBay selling the manual. The full manual is half a ream of A4 or more. Could only find an add for the 35mm manual... https://www.ebay.com/itm/330942048509 Ask him if he has the M-86 manual, knows of sources of parts etc....Maybe it was someone else. I have part of the manual. It's missing the parts that would make it easy for a tech to trouble shoot the ICs on the boards. Gregg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 Looking for the manual, I searched eBay for "moviola flatbed" and found some "timing belts"... eBay item number:323905925879 eBay item number:285014949041 And there were Steenbeck ones as well for Mark. (85cents per tooth...Steenbecks more nobby, must be worth it) eBay item number:324748353612 Gregg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Dunn Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 (edited) 11 hours ago, Gregg MacPherson said: Looking for the manual, I searched eBay for "moviola flatbed" and found some "timing belts"... eBay item number:323905925879 eBay item number:285014949041 And there were Steenbeck ones as well for Mark. (85cents per tooth...Steenbecks more nobby, must be worth it) eBay item number:324748353612 Gregg. I have a source of those now, the Cinema Museum in Lambeth has ordered in bulk for its machines and I get paid in kind (belts, exciter lamps or wine) for working on them. IME the original belts start off light in colour and go that dark brown when they die. They were rubber, but the newer replacements ( since the 90s?) are the polyurethane ones- they start off grey and yellow a bit (I have one from 2005) but they don't become fragile. The rubber vee-belts that drive the plates are much less critical. My logic is that, since cutting on 16mm. stopped in the early 90s, no machine older that that will have had its belts replaced since then, and many machines will have their originals. To clarify for the OP, as you observe, those Moviola spares may be a very different material. It's an American machine so no reason for it to have German-standard DR belts. They certainly look different. I may be fortunate in having a late model (1975) '00 machine with no ICs. Even I can test a resistor. Edited April 10, 2023 by Mark Dunn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Liberman Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 I used to work extensively on these. Your transport is not frozen -- the motor is supposed to be locked when the film is not moving to prevent sync from slipping. It just thinks that the transport is stopped all the time. To troubleshoot, exchange the cards between transports. If the problem stays with the transport, then you know that there is a problem with the transport itself or the controls. If the problem changes to the other transport when you exchange the cards, then you know that the electronics card is bad. It is a good idea anyway to pull and re-seat all the cards -- this often cures problems by cleaning off oxidation on the contacts. Other common problems are a blown out light bulb (the tachometer on the transport motors uses two light bulbs!), and a break in the speed control knob element. The motor drivers can also go bad -- you may also be able to track this down by exchanging drivers. Check the +35v fuses too -- a blown one can indicate a shorted motor driver. Belts sometimes are black, depending on the type of rubber they are made of. Thanks, Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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