Mold damage restoration

[Aapo Lettinen]

Hi you all!

I purchased a non-working Eclair NPR which has some mold damage, especially in magazines (soundproofing materials etc have some mold on them) and some corrosion damage as well. It was pretty affordable and I mostly purchased it for reference and testing when developing crystal sync motors for Eclairs (to take dimensions from) so it does not need to be in full working condition... but I would want to try to restore it the best I can if it seems to be possible and make some videos of it just for fun.

What would be the best way to try to clean camera surfaces (metal, optics, mirror, rubber parts) to try to make sure that the mold does not attack it further/again?  one of the mags has door oxidized shut but I will only need one mag and can purchase new mags if needed. the camera body is the main consideration, it seems to turn and work correctly though have not checked the condition of the optics yet and need to take it apart.

[Frank Wylie]

Full strength household vinegar, followed by a damp cloth with distilled water is a good bet.

Be sure to use new microfiber cloths for each step and use a blow dryer to fully dry the surface after rinsing with the distilled water.

For extra insurance,  take an old sock and place a handful of loose copper bits (here in the USA, I use old copper pennies that are pre-1982) within and toss it in the clothes dryer with an old towel.  Get the pennies/copper as hot as possible and toss them in with the camera body in an airtight container for several days.  Take the copper out and re-heat it at least once a day and place it back in the container.  The copper is a great fungicide/mold killer.

 

[Aapo Lettinen]

16 hours ago, Frank Wylie said:

Full strength household vinegar, followed by a damp cloth with distilled water is a good bet.

Be sure to use new microfiber cloths for each step and use a blow dryer to fully dry the surface after rinsing with the distilled water.

For extra insurance,  take an old sock and place a handful of loose copper bits (here in the USA, I use old copper pennies that are pre-1982) within and toss it in the clothes dryer with an old towel.  Get the pennies/copper as hot as possible and toss them in with the camera body in an airtight container for several days.  Take the copper out and re-heat it at least once a day and place it back in the container.  The copper is a great fungicide/mold killer.

 

thanks, tons of useful information! will try the vinegar soon. it would surely take most of the mold smell out as well ?

I was thinking of treating the magazine doors by heating them to over 60C which is supposed to kill the mold spores. hoping that it would sterilize the soundproofing materials well enough that I could at least use them for camera tests.

do you know which kind of filling the soundproofing mag door covers have, is there something which could melt away in such temperatures?

[Duncan Brown]

2 hours ago, aapo lettinen said:

do you know which kind of filling the soundproofing mag door covers have, is there something which could melt away in such temperatures?

The ones I've had to reglue have seemed more fibrous/natural than plastic/chemical so I guess there's hope.

Duncan

[David Sekanina]

2 hours ago, aapo lettinen said:

do you know which kind of filling the soundproofing mag door covers have, is there something which could melt away in such temperatures?

On my XTR prod the sound proofing material is a Bitumen based self adhesive sheet, which indeed would soften quite a bit at 60°C:

https://www.raumprobe.com/de/material/bitumenschwerfolie-zur-daemmung-und-daempfung-von-blechen-und-metallteilen-kunststoff--11690-04-796

[Aapo Lettinen]

Thanks! I started to try the heat treatment now, hope for the best. I am prepared to purchase another magazine if destroying the existing ones with heat ? if it works out then the next step will be to wipe the larger surfaces with vinegar to reduce the mold smell and after that thorough cleaning and partial disassebly so that I can clean and restore the mechanics.

For the camera motor, camera body and viewfinder I am first using 4 or 5 hours of strong UV light to kill the spores on outer surfaces the best I can. Possibly using vinegar to clean the outer surfaces. Then complete disassembly and irradiating the insides with UV light too for many hours. After that, thorough cleaning, oiling and reassembling.

Hope this plan works out. will adjust if necessary and as long as the camera body and the viewfinder survive the project will be a success ?

[Aapo Lettinen]

It seems that the magazines are not restorable. There is too many moldy internal rubber parts (the NPR seems to have rubber parts in the magazine throat etc various places) and overall the NPR mags seems to be extremely overengineered and complex for what they are so it is just too much work to repair compared to purchasing a used not mold damaged one from somewhere else.

So a disappointment with the magazines. Maybe can use them for spare parts (screws, axles, etc). Everything which is rubber is too moldy and nasty and needs to be thrown away.

 

On the other side, the viewfinder seems to be pretty fine and the camera body seems repairable and not too oxidized or moldy. Will see... at least it turns so I can make the NPR motor project in any case, stinking camera or not ?

[Frank Wylie]

I wonder if the magazines might be a good 3D printing project to replace all the rollers and perished parts?

 

[Aapo Lettinen]

20 hours ago, Frank Wylie said:

I wonder if the magazines might be a good 3D printing project to replace all the rollers and perished parts?

 

it might be possible to replace some of the internal rubber film guides with 3d printed plastic parts I believe.

the main issue for me is that the NPR magazines seem to be way too complicated in design for what they are (using lots of unnecessary looking parts adding tons of complexity and making them very difficult and time consuming to open and service) which might make it impractical to repair the badly damaged ones for it being just too much work to take them apart and back together again.

I mean, it took me an hour just to disassemble one, just to take it apart as fast as I could, because it having so many individual parts and everything mounted with bazillion tiny little screws of which half are rusted and difficult to remove. Did not count but it has to have like from 100 to 150 individual parts in one magazine which is insane when comparing to almost any other magazine which can handle similar task with may 30 or 40 parts including all the screws. And the internal rubber film guides are just bad design choice, no matter how much they could theoretically lower the running noise (not much at all I assume) because rubber degrades and may be impossible to replace after so many years unless taking working parts from another mag

[Frank Wylie]

It's a camera of it's time and place.  it's probably made so complex as a way to employ as many workers as possible at Eclair during the French economic boom of the 1950's through the 1970's.

That reminds me of my Zeiss Icon Contaflex Super B, 35mm stills camera.  While made in Germany, it was designed and produced roughly in the same era and is wildly over-engineered, complex and almost impossible to repair.  I respect it for it's jewel-like appearance, but it's not a very practical camera for sports or action photography.

I understand your frustration from a practical standpoint, but remember that it's not from your time or your situation.  Maybe that will take a bit of sting out of its design and allow you to appreciate it for what it is.

 

[Aapo Lettinen]

Yeah there is cleary something going on with the design because it is way more complex than other stuff from same era i have seen.

As for the mold restoration, I heat treated the mags and uv treated the camera body and motor and viewfinder. The smell still persists even after couple of vinegar treatments ( it seems to work on paint but rubber keeps the smell perfectly ) so I think I will put the whole camera kit on ozone later on.