Kodak 7207 & 7219 - Rich Blacks - Grain

[Boris Kalaidjiev]

Hello everyone, 

I am currently shooting a feature on both S16 and S35mm stock. When shooting on S35 (5207) my blacks are black and look really nice, I keep them around 4-5 stops under and they look great. But when it comes to 7207/7219 if I do the same they look super grainy a bit too much. 

How can I reduce the grain in the shadows?

1. Is it better if I rate my 7207 at 200ASA or even 160ASA?

2. Should I rate my 7207 at 125ASA and then pull down one stop? 

3. Should I try and keep the darkest part on the frame 3.5 / 4 stops under and try and maintain that with my spot meter instead of letting it go lower and then later crush it in post to get rich blacks?

 

A bit lost here on what would be the best approach for this.

Thanks 

 

Edited July 21, 2023 by Boris Kalaidjiev

[Boris Kalaidjiev]

I guess if I rate 7207 at 160ASA I am forcing my self to light more and then I can easily bring down the 2/3 overexposure in post, right? Would that result in cleaner blacks on S16?

[David Mullen ASC]

Certainly some overexposure helps reduce graininess. Black level in a photochemical print would be helped by a denser negative being printed down, but black level in a video transfer is a matter of digitally setting blacks to "0" -- so what overexposure gives you is more shadow detail so that you can set the blacks to "0" without them looking artificially crushed and have them look naturally dark. Most of the reason why a video image has noisy blacks is because they are lifted to show shadow detail or the image is underexposed so that setting the blacks to "0" makes them feel crushed, plugged up.

[Boris Kalaidjiev]

I only have ProRes 422 at my disposal right now. The final scan is 4K DPX but I doubt the noise and grain would be less in the DPX compared to the 422. 
 

When I bring the log 422 into resolve and bring down the blacks so they’re at 0 everything still seems a bit to noisy (I am not trying force pull any details out of the blacks).

Would you recommend rating the stock 1/3 or 2/3 faster or pull it one stop for cleaner shadows on S16? 

[Giray Izcan]

I think you would be much happier with 7213 - 200t - stock as opposed to 7219. '19 on s16, for the most part, looks soft and grainy that should be reserved for night ext or for situations beyond your control. Good luck and have a safe shoot.

Edited July 22, 2023 by Giray Izcan

[Dirk DeJonghe]

First, start with viewning through the proper input LUT in Resolve, see my document below (previously uploaded). I attach it again because many people found it helpful. Cineon Log to Rec709 needs a LUT before anything else to compensate for the 'curve'.

The general rule is to keep 'blacks with detail' at -4 stops, but this is a matter of personal preference.

Underexposing will NOT give you deeper blacks, overexposing slightly and printing down will. I suggest you start with 2/3 of a stop overexposing. Using the Input LUT as described in the document, you will see if you need to bring down the overal exposure with offset or increase exposure. This is before doing any 'real' colorgrading.

CineonLog_DaVinci.pdf

[Boris Kalaidjiev]

@Dirk DeJonghe thank you for this very insightful PDF!

I applied what you wrote down and it brought all the digital noise down. It's crazy how wrong settings in my Resolve can cause so much trouble. 

 

Thank you again!