K Borowski

Phil, I am starting to get angry. Re-scan it, are you kidding? Did you read any of my response? I contributed about an hour of my time for free to help you out and all you did was fall for the bnig, pretty pictures. The info I gave you you can find out exactly how well you exposed the neg, what to expect from the scans. Also, not to belittle in any way the color correction job Ben did, but that is a basic grade. You need to fix your computer issues, learn the software, learn to read neg's and quit blaming labs, timers, film stock, etc. Ultimately this comes down, I think, to your not having adequate computing power to handle what you got back. DPX is an industry standard and a great format to work with. What do you want back, JPEG basics? Worst case, i'd find someone who can convert the scans you have to a usable format for you and your computer

@Phil Rhodes: Maybe the timing error is due to it not being overcast and rainy? Correcting the footage to what you always describe your homeland to look like, dark, rainy, and dreary? ;-) Here is a link to a wonderful guid by Arri to the DI process, that happens to explain EVERYTHING about film in the process, and all sorts of information about densitometry, print-through curves, logarhythms, fL, % grey, luminance, illuminance. It will leave you with your head spinning you've learned so much if you read it top-to-bottom: http://www.acvl.org/digital_intermediates/dicompanion/ch02.html#id339839 The section on color negative film I've given you a link to says D-max on ECN-2 neg. hovers around 1.6 above B+F, so with F-64D 8522 stock, that should be Red ~1.80 Green ~2.10 Blue ~2.40 or so. Without having actual HD, MD (18% grey/ AIM roughly), and LD D-max is a great way to make sure you've received enough processing time, temperature, turbulation. Under-developed film will have weak D-maxes in areas of gross overexposure (but it is your fault if you under-expose a shot! ;-) ) I hadn't seen the grain in the black dress earlier. Yeah, it looks like either or underexposure and age fog there.. Another little tid-bit of advice: With a gamma of only about 0.55, There's only about 0.17 per stop measuring the film with a densitometer, so if the fog were say 0.06 above standard, that'd be 1/3 of a stop of fog I'd compensate for in exposure, 0.8 would be 1/2 stop, and 0.11 would be 2/3 of a stop compensation. I think blue would be affected first in this stock by fog.

Ted Langdell, CEO of Flashscan 8 US demonstrates his HD film transfer system to John Carlson of Monacco Digital Film Labs. The Windense booth, Bob Spies at left, Mike Howell at right with their new in-line photo densitometer; a very impressive accomplishment, reads control stripes (not strips) to run processing control right out of the processor, eliminating a separate quality control step. Above and beyond a standard ECN-2 "sensi" it tests process uniformity and one other variable for the utmost in ECN-2 or color print quality control. Carla Ribeiro (spelled incorrectly in my last post? sorry) at the Techniform booth at the vendor exhibit. They offer for sale a wide variety of processing tyres (boy, you use funny spellings across the pond!), rollers, and PTRs to minimize dust and dirt accumulation on both polyester and acetate base.

I'm sorry, but I completely disagree that this is the stock's fault. This looks like just fine exposures (the grain in the sky is the only sign of age I can see) coupled with horrible horrible timing. Have you looked at the neg? It looks like a very rich exposure just from what I see on the screen, which is GOOD. Maybe even some overexposure (again, GOOD) that saved you from what would amount to minor (maybe 1/2 to 1/3 of a stop increase base fog at most with such slow film unless you stored it in a sun window). Get a reading of the D-min (clear film, and find D-max somewhere. For Fuji F-64, here is what they should read (hope I am allowed to give this out): D-MIN: Red 0.19 Green 0.47 Blue 0.80 LAD: Red 0.79 Green 1.17 Blue 1.53 (This is what a properly-exposed grey card should read on this film that is fresh). Sorry, I guess they don't give out D-max, just D-min, average gamma and LAD values. P.S. I woul want to overexpose my LAD values so that they are still Red 0.60 Green 0.70 Blue ~0.75 above D-Min, as the base fog goes up you want to keep your exposure above it, even if that means blocking up the highlights more Make sure you get your negative read with STATUS M (it doesn't measure true visual RGB responses transmitted through the film negative, rather how PRINT STOCK dyes respond to the dyes in the negative when exposed through it in a contact print or optical print.) Even some higher-end still minilabs can help you out. You'd have to send a piece across the ocean to the U.S. but I would be happy to read a clip of a chart, D-max, D-min for you for free. Don't have a F64D Shirley, but I could compare it with the other Fuji neg's I have and see how it compares to my aforementioned F64 AIMs. Will see if I can find osome Fuji D-max, should be roughly the same fore all the stocks, and will post that for you.

No, but I hear you can upload photos straight to FB on newer models. A giant leap foward for "film"making? ;-) Sure there's plenty of silly bells and whistles, but this can be just as true with 16- and 35mm film cameras. In all seriousness, DSLRs can be highly useful on student films, low-budget films, but why not rent a dedicated (larger I know, but what are you going to do with the space you save, or ten-twenty pounds, unless you have little kids from gradeschool operating? A lot of their perceived benefits are hype and marketing though. Take the commercial on TV where they show one used to shoot a spoof movie scene. I'm pretty sure '70s analog tape would have been just as impressive: They had pyrotechnics and a crane shot, stunts, crew, all of which would far outweigh in cost even shooting on IMAX. Low light abilities? I would NOT recommend shooting past 1600 on a DSLR in stills. For movies? Take your chances cranking the ISO all the way up. . . At the same time, pushed film is almost certainly more objectioniable in terms of clean imagery than high ISO, available light, NIGHTIME shooting. . . As to large file sizes, sure, but certainly smaller in form factor than a 1,000-foot roll of 35mm film. Shooting time? Come on, again. . . I think it's silly talking about how memory cards are expensive in relation to just about any other cost in this industry. I've seen them look good, I've seen them look horrible; once again everyone needs to look BEHIND the camera for the quality factor. . . the DP.

Here are just a few photos I've been able to throw up on Photobucket from the conference: Eastman Kodak's new lineup of intermediate films, print stocks, and replacement of 5260 with 5230, an improved economy option 500T film, demonstrated by Michael Ryan of EK Rochester, NY Ujwal Nirgudkar Tech Director of Film Lab in Mumbai, India and Kevin Dillon, President of ACVL pose for a portrait. Lab owners and industry reps examine an Arri Alexa up close. Tyson Birmann demonstrates the Alexa. James Hirano of FujiFilm goes over the Vivid, Eterna, CP product lines, as well as their new on-set color calibration and control tool, set for release by late 2011, early 2012. George Gush of FujiFilm (not pictured), also introduced a new B&W sep. film rated twenty-nine HUNDRED years. Had there been 35mm film in the time of Jesus Christ, Tutankhamen, it would still be around today if stored in a safe place. Cocktails after the opening reception. Carla Ribiero of Techniform, David Wright of Photomec Ltd., forget her name (sorry!) a laboratory representative from central America, and Daniel Hernandez of New Art Laboratories, S.A. de C.V., Mexico Closing dinner. Carla, George Marques, and Silvia Rabello Directora de LaboCine, Rio de Janeiro, Brasil George and Silvia converse with a representative of Windense Ltd. of Scotland at the closing dinner. Small talk at the end of the vendor's exhibit about the state of the industry. Ted Langdell of Flashscan 8 at left. Peter Bulcke, ACVL Treasurer, Al Lansdale of American Film & Tape, and Michael Ruffolo of CTI Chicago.

Haha, thought this was a student post, quite a surprise to see it is you David. You MUST join the never-ending attempt at beers, meetup in NYC. Think the thread has been running at least three years. . . without success. I know going from Eastern Region to LA you have to get on a roster, proving experience. Would you be willing/able to explain how the reverse procedure works of changing regions? Had a chance to see an Arri Alexa up close at ACVL this past week. Beautiful, sleek camera (although I'd still take 5213 or '19 (or Eterna/VIvid)over it any day if I could!) Any particular reason for a slowdown in LA this time of year?

The way it was explained to me it is a successor to '60 or '80, the discount 500T option that had mimicked '79 more than '18 in its characteristics. So finer grain, not certain but pretty sure a reduction in contrast if working photo-chemically. Personally, I'd be more interested in the percentage cost savings over '19.

This year was our first year of membership; what a wonderful event, group of people. Certain things can and can't be said from what I saw and heard there. Will be posting a complete review and photos after I get back home. But, to briefly run down, it was disappointing to NOT be able to meet Dominic Case in person. Was heartening to see new stock improvements from Kodak, Fuji, Kodak's continued innovation in improving its Vision line of print film, 2383 and '93, to adapt it to the current market. Good to see representatives from Scotland, England, India, Brazil, Paris, California, Cleveland, and several other countries in attendence. Had an opportunity, personally, to touch R2D2, see ILM's screening room, meet their projectionist (with a 35mm changeover projection system no less!) and be in one of the most quiet rooms I've ever been in: Dolby Lab's screening room. Good to see an Arri Alexa up close. Great to have advise, support from other labs, suppliers in this trying time for "chemical film." Just so that all your filmmakers know how hard we all work (and party!) will post some pictures of the event. . . as soon as I get the film developed ;-)

Waht bullsh!!! AMC is doing this too. Relegate PAN AND SCAN to the 20th century, not 35mm film!

It was on at 8PM, is playing again at 2:30AM tomorrow here in EDT, and then probably won't be on again another month. God, I need a DVHS recorder. ANy other easy method of recording HD? It seems like my DVR fills up after like 4 HD movies. Ran out of space trying to record this in full AGAIN at the 8PM slot, will have to really clean out my harddrive to get it again at the 2:30 slot. . .

John, that could be a line from Star Trek VI when they are trying to speak Klingon! "We is condemning food and stuff." :-D

Hal, I wasn't singling you out, but if you want to take it personally, feel free to do so. I am guilty of getting overly technical with my insistence on perfect processing control (by *perfect* I mean I think what a 1-sigma deviation plus or minus, one sixth of an F/stop with Eastman Color Negative), but there comes a time when you ahve to roll the camera, and put away the calculator or the light meter or the P-cam App. The only way one would be able to produce any color OTHER than cyan yellow or magenta would be with some sort of technicolor printer or special-built projector (neither of which is going to happen). So the only area where this could occur today would be in offset printing where they can reproduce, at extra cost, specific colors by special mixing inks. Even here thee are mixtures of other dyes. I don't know why CMY as opposed to actually haveing Violet (C and Y aka Blue) is a big deal. The HUMAN EYE doesn't have that exact point of sensitivity, so it is a combination of two different types of cones anyway. Edit: And since you want me to "read up" on color science and gamut, I will tell you that I don't have to. I actually get PAID TO WORK WITH IT. No I won't post charts, provide photos as proof. CMY, RGBCIE-1966, and LAB are a few that I work with. Really enjoy Cineon, as it correlates hit points on the densitometer to values in photoshop.

Thanks Ben for having my back when everyone else was gathering to watch me get smashed after being thrown under the bus! Really hard pill to swallow at the end of 16+ hour days. Not working a film shoot right now, but it's kind of like the "Happy Gilmore getting in shape for hockey season" treatment I am undergoing right now, but getting in shape for summer shooting instead :-D If you can find a copy of the chart online, looked for it there but couldn't find it. Or could I just e-mail a flatbed scan of my '72 Kodak Color Reference chart to you to post? I really do need to take care of Photobucket, but I have five packages to mail and some fair-wage activities to attend to. Keep shooting film everyone!

After being bashed for correctly pointing out the correlation between gamma and color saturation in the last thread to which I contributed in this forum, I have just read this thread and all its erroneous responses, excessive amount of verbage and charts with a laugh. I won't bother myself to post my OWN image, as my Phtoobucket account I don't even remember a password to activiate it and upload a scan. But, Jesus, guys, this htread is full of complex math backing up mostly false statements. Photographic blue IS violet. Don't believe me? Get F___ed. But I'll send an e-mail with the charts to prove it to anyone on here who has easy access to photobucket or another file posting method. Looks like all of you have too MUCH free storage space with all of this needlessly compllicated color science on this thread. Photographic blue is a mixture of cyan (blue we normally speak of is dark cyan with less saturation and more density/absorbance) and MAGENTA. It basically is violet or purple, and CMY systems (like film) should be perfectly capable of communicating this color back combining cyan and magenta pigments.

Grain is unacceptably large in S16 500T. i see a lot every day. . .

I wouldn't roll 500T in 16mm. Just saying. . . I'd stick with 200T, 250D at the highest. . .

Stuart, instead of trying to be the biggest cock of the roost, howabout not copy-pasting something from somewhere and contributing?

Saying something is contrasty but then desaturated is like saying something is white and then saying that it is black. Contrast and saturation go hand in hand. C-41 IS contrastier, and, as such more saturated but the difference is subtle. Anthony, i know you like to experiment, but get the project done, find whichever is cheaper and the difference will be so subtle that it can be tweaked out in timing anyway. Go for the option you can get the better price per foot on. I work with both of these processes and would be happy to have your business! ~Karl Borowski XXLtd Lab. fb.me/xxltdlab (440)238-1148 Cleveland, OH

Mullen is one of whose "us?" Honestly, I don't know how David is not insulted by people talking about "what a great camera he used and how it made everything look great." HE is the one making his footage (inchang, biteage) look good or bad, not any camera, system, lens etc. Gels, diffusion, lighting, filtration, ISO speed, processing (chemical, electronic), it is HIM controlling these variables in an aesthetic and artistically pleasing way, not some algorhythm or a geek in a labcoat with an eyedropper in Rochester or Yokohama Mountain in Japan.

No it is 16. I'm worried about chart sizes. Want to test the actual film out, not a different emulsion. I'm going to have to shoot everything full-frame or thereabout just to measure it. . .

I've inherited a bunch of dubiously stored color reversal film. Just measuring D-max (blank film) doesn't help. Normally I'd shoot a grey card, blank film and D-max (min in this case), but I know that reversal sensis have toe density measured in addition to LD, HD MD? (Zone V - 18% grey) and the min, max. So what zones should I shoot? I know it's -3-1/2 + 3-1/2 for B&W neg. Do I need to make my exposures closer together, owing to the more limited latitude of reversal? I'm as out of my element with reversal these days as I am with B&W. Too much work with color neg., color pos.; too much lab work, not enough set work :-/

Sure you can see splices. They appear as white lines in major Hollywood movies. I remember then in "The Alamo" just seven years ago. Reversal? I want to say they are more difficult to spot, because of the reversal process as opposed to neg-> pos. I want to say they'd be black? Watch, I am wrong. However, as it was on 16mm film, there's no way to CONTACT print 16mm, except A&B roll, where you don't have to scrape the emulsion off at the bottom of one frame spliced, so it'd show up at the top (due to the lens flipping it) of the screen on the last frame projected before a splice. However, if the film were OPTICALLY printed (a projector camera combination to duplicate it), splices can be completely hidden, or in A&B roll they are almost undetectable, as the leader has the scrape made on it, not any frames fof film. If you had access to the actual FILM ELEMENTS, there'd probably be evidence of splices with all but optical printing, but I doubt you have a copy ;-) I'm glad you're not one of those people that have turned this into a relgiion. The guy that made this got lucky and wasn't even that good of a huckster, yet to some people he is like Jesus Christ ofr monster movies.

Sorry, but none of what I've seen of the current incarnation of "Doctor Who" screams "good highlights" British Summers and all. Blown highlights all over the place, even in controlled lighting interior locations. Ugly flesh tones. This is no "Date Night" in terms of digital cinematography done well IMHO. Then again, it's no "Battlestar Galactica" for digital cinematography done piss-poorly either. I agree with John here; think this is a matter of form over function. I can understand the appeal of this series, just like Star Trek, only a little bit more monster of the week and far less in terms of plot. Plenty of nice eye candy. Frema Agyeman has me watching Law & Order UK like a junkie too. God I'd love to have a slot on her docket. Then again, I was furious when they switched "Enterprise" to digital it's last season, not that it didn't suck a plenty on 35mm film!

Charles: It still is, at least on the 2K foot can of 2383 I got in late last year. Same thing with VNF. Not sure with ECN. . . don't recall any on Freerunner this summer, and these are second-hand cans where it has either been thoroughly covered by gaff tape or removed. So if 05 is a slit, at this point it doesn't help me. I'm guessing that it's the one can and doing a clip on the other. I guess I will find out for certain when I get the other piece of film back anyway. . . Appreciate your trying to help though. Slits always used to confuse me, the way they were/are described in cameramen's handbooks. Also, anecdotally, I notice that the numbers are longer for '19 than Expression. Probably due to them churning out so much more '19 than anything else. . .