Douglas Hunter

No one mentioned RGB in Hollywood. I assume they are still doing their thing. Am I wrong?

Greetings all, I wanted to see if other folks have had similar difficulty with the newer film stocks. Let me point out that I am aware of reasons why some cameras have difficulty advancing the Velvia 50D and Kodak 100D. This being the case my question is not about the cause of the problem but rather, I'm interested in learning how wide spread this difficulty is among super 8 shooters and the nature of the difficulty folks are having. Both my 814xls and my Beaulieu 5008s have had some trouble with these stocks resulting in missed shots. It appears that either the pull-down claw engages the film at the beginning of the shot and is fine for the entire shot OR it does not and the camera runs without advancing the film. So far I have not seen an example of the claw missing the film mid shot. So, how many Canon and Beaulieu users are having the same experience? What about folks with other cameras?

Lenny Lipton's wonderful old book on independent film making had depth of field charts for super 8. If you are on a Mac there is a depth of field calculator widget from Fuerstentum.net that covers super 8. I would think a little googling would result in a number of options. Is there something on the kodak website?

For me the question is not if its possible to shoot a feature in super 8, since it has been done. For me the question is about the pragmatics of doing so: Are the aesthetics of super 8 going to enhance your story? Are the challenges of doing a large project in super 8 worth dealing with in your opinion? Is there an easier way to get the aesthetic you are looking for that you should consider? Are there strengths to super 8 that other formats don't offer?

got-cha. I know the area well.

The 30+ year old consumer grade cells are FAR more likely to fail than the 5 years old professional grade cell in my $500 light meter. I've seen the internal cells on Super 8 cameras die during a shoot on 3 - 4 different shoots. Some died quickly and it was clear that they were shot, but this is not always the case. In one case with a cell that started under exposing things dramatically but didn't fail all together, the DP didn't notice and all his footage was pretty much unusable. because day for night was not the desired look. obviously you can use your camera as a spot meter as you describe but I didn't think that was part of the context set up by the OP. Perhaps I just didn't read his post carefully enough. But if I am reading your tone correctly your opinion seems to be that using the internal meter is superior to using a hand held meter which is not true, its a matter of using one's tools in a way that is best for the context and the individual DP, its a tools not rules situation.

You said it, Seems like there are trucks on San Pasqual almost weekly. What street was the Audio ad shot on? I swear I recognize the houses but can't quite place it.

I do hand held readings about 95% of the time. Pragmatically speaking S8 internal meters have been known to die in the middle of a shoot ruining the footage of the poor bloke who relied on the internal meter. Personally, I always want to control where black is and where highlights are. Using the BTL meter means you are always doing the same thing: going for a normal exposure on the subject of the shot. For me normal exposure is rarely the goal of super 8 image making.

And I do so appreciate your special attention, because it makes me fell, well, so very special!

Banter, not fighting, banter.

Alex baby, the difference between you and I is that I am a working professional in film and TV, with years of experience, and a great deal of knowledge, who nonetheless makes mistakes sometimes. You on the other hand, are what we call a "colorful character". A blend of paranoia, anti-social behavior, and martyr syndrome with a super 8 camera in one hand and a computer keyboard in the other. When I make a mistake, what you are supposed to do is respond in self-righteous anger, use a malapropism or two, and see how long you can keep a thread alive with a discussion of all the ways in which I am a clueless, bumbling, idiot. hugs and kisses -Douglas

I agree the OP was obnoxious, and I wouldn't like to have that experience. But unfortunately its part of the price of putting one's stuff out there. But that really had nothing to do with my post, I was simply interested in discussing technical aspects of what we saw in the trailer. Maybe I'll put my next project on the web and post the link here just for kicks. I'm sure there are a few that would really dig tearing it apart! Is Westsider being screened anywhere in town?

Question: What do you mean by "spot on"? If you mean the ability to recognize the accuracy of color representation, you should know that humans have terrible color memory. We are cognitively not capable of remembering the value of a specific hue for more than a few seconds. So for example the yellow roller coaster in the trailer. Yes it is and was clearly yellow, but is the yellow we see on the film the same yellow that the coaster is on a sunny day? None of us can give an accurate answer to that question. Maybe you were getting at some thing else but I figured I'd mention this if for no other reasons than its an interesting fact and one that many folks don't know. Second, its perfectly legit to be critical of a director's color choices if they are not right for the show. Some people will like the super saturated look of West Sider others won't. But I doubt that anyone posting here can't recognize that the colors are highly saturated. The question is how does that saturation impact the story telling. The OP has every right to be critical of that, and any other aspect of the production.

I think there are a few things they could do to shape up the look and feel of this film. 1) Image stabilization would really help the poor registration and hand held shooting. 2) A dirt fix pass. 3) Another color pass, I get it they they wanted cartoon like colors but look at the skin tones. They are inconsistent and unattractive. for example In the ext. shot of the man standing with the asian woman, they are both orange, the woman in particular (maybe the characters were involved in a tragic west side "fake and bake" tanning accident?). Again I am considering the genre of the film, I would think that they would want to make their talent look as good as possible. Certainly their use of wardrobe and makeup suggests that they wanted to achieve a certain level of LA style. What I see in the trailer is that saturation was the ultimate thing they were going for in color timing and other aspects of the image suffered. Just my 2 cents. Ultimately I'm very interested in seeing the film with sound! Its hard to get an idea of how well it works with picture only. Finally despite my criticisms, I still really dig the ambition and hard work that goes into any narrative project done on Super 8. Charles is alright in my book.

O.K. so everyone has beaten the car thing to death, and they are right, you don't want to be stubborn on that point it will make getting gigs and getting to your gigs way to difficult. It will also certainly make you LATE for gigs. Second, union work in LA does have its cycles. getting here right before winter may not be the best time. For example, in TV there are really no good sized shows starting up Oct - Jan. Naturally, if you don't mind doing super low or no paying gigs they are always around.

The trailer has a well defined look, its very colorful, and everything, even the interiors have a lot of light. But listening to the VO it seems like they wanted to make a parody of a really glitzy, night-time soap opera style show. So personally, I don't think super 8 was a good format choice because the look is fighting the content. 24p SD video or pro-sumer HD would have been more in keeping with the style of show they are borrowing from. Also the inserted computer graphic was very out of place. I hope they will fix that.

There is a great deal of noise on the audio tracks. I'm assuming a certain level of background noise but I suspect there is a lot of system noise in this as well. While the BOSS might be a good low cost way to record music, there are two problems for film applications. 1) no XLR inputs. 2) very difficult to ride levels while recording. What format does it record in, Mp3? That would be another problem.

I've tried to use the the stabilization in FCP 5 but I didn't much like the results. After Effects has wonderful stabilization abilities, it's got very good motion tracking and its very easy to tweek. go AE all the way.

There were two different versions the 300 which was a Polavision camera and the 250 which I believe was not. I forgot about these cameras. There was one on eBay in the past year. Since they are motion analysis cameras they are not well suited for doc. drama, music video etc. But I guess since they have a pin and take C-mount lenses that they would probably win the contest in terms of steady and sharp. Although Stabilizing footage from a 5008s in After Effects, is going to be fine, and obviously can have any of the same glass.

Do tell.

Robert, you'll be glad to know that some of us think that good camera maintainence is a necessity, all the more so when buying on ebay!

You do realize that we are talking about super 8 here don't you? There is no such thing as a pin registered super 8 camera.

Yale film and video has the best rental price for a basic Canon 1014xl-s. If you need a tap etc check out the super 8 guy.

Eric, to get tight grain you will need to shoot the slower more fine grained stocks. The Fuji Velvia and the Kodad 100D are the most saturated finest grain stocks available right now. The problem for some folks is that they have less lattitude and are more contrasty. Kodak 7217 is rated at 200 / 125. Its a lower contrast stock with more lattitude. It's colors tend to be more natural but the appearance of color on film has as much to do with art design and lighting as it does with film stock. If grain is a big deal to you, don't shoot anything faster than 200, and learn how to light. Grain is always going to be there in super 8 so shoot slow and control your mid tones.

Despite its problems I gotta say that my 5008s creates great images. I've used two lenses on it - the stock Ang. 80mm zoom and also a Canon 16 - 102 zoom. Both lenses give very good results. My 814xl-s also seems to have pretty good glass on it. Honestly thought I don't think one can take the discussion of sharpness in Super 8 very far because of the inherent limitation of blowing up such a small image area.