Matthew W. Phillips

A horrifying attitude and one of the reasons why I don't hire DPs for my projects. You'd be shocked how, outside of those markets, literally no one gives a damn. I have worked with talent that has imdb pages with dozens of credits and I was their first time on celluloid. Edit: Even when I went to Grad school in Chicago, film wasn't very widely used. I wasn't too much "in the scene" outside of the fact that my college was shared between the computer geeks and the film majors but they were exclusively "digital" there and had already ditched emulsion.

Yes, of course we don't "matter". But this is the attitude that will kill their business in the end. A business needs more than old guard, wealthy clientele to sustain itself in the future. New DPs are coming up in colleges (and on their own) from many places and many of them do not know film and will likely have little reason to get to know it. I used to defend film costs for the quality but this is reaching a tipping point where it is not worth it unless someone gets the budget for it from some one else. At that point, some might feel "why bother?"

Agreed. I had even thought about coming back to film. I had some good news today that will mean a bit of a windfall of bonus cash in about 6 months. Nonetheless, I am not about to spend my windfall just to add to Kodak's coffers. I am completely blown away at how Kodak has stayed faithful to the "elitist" mindset they had back when they controlled everything. It is like they would prefer to lose everything rather than find a way to make shooting film more affordable.

If anyone is curious, I did a comparison between the green stuffed parrot (my daughter named him "Peky") on 16mm film and on the Sony a6000 using the color match of the color chart (along with a few adjustments). He looks pretty good on the a6000 in my opinion considering this is now a 7 year old prosumer mirrorless camera. First image (shot on R16mm CP16r with Zoom) Second image (shot on Sony a6000 with 18-105mm Zoom)

Thanks for the tip but I am not a fan of softening my footage beyond lowering the sharpness down in camera.

Yikes!

Was using the free trial and do like it. However, is there any option to make grain finer than 1.0? Even at minimum, it looks a bit coarse. With higher res camera these days, large grain wont fit right. Thanks.

Despite our previous differences, I really do appreciate this well thought out reply that directly answers all of my questions. I did mention (although I guess you missed it) that any Red product is off the table for me for personal reasons. I do not wish to start drama so I will leave it at choosing not to support their company regardless of value or quality. According to your post, that doesn't leave me with much of an option. I really wanted to like the Ursa 12k but I haven't seen even a single test anywhere that gives me hope of being satisfied with the image. The 6k pro has some footage I have liked but then you and others here have pointed out the issues with that one. Whatever the purchase, I want it to be the last for me for a good while. If I cannot be happy shooting content on it the next 5-10 years, I would rather save my money and wait until I find something where this is the case. You keep mentioning your Aaton. I know I was "over the film workflow" but I still love film and could be lured back if the prices on cameras were not so crazy. I know that processing and scan can be doable for me by dealing with Rob from Cinelab as he took care of me in the past and has been fair. The stock is a bit pricey but I'll just be careful what I shoot. Still it comes back to the cost to get a film camera in decent repair. I am not a camera tech and do not wish to become on. I just want to shoot the thing. Therefore, if you have the inside track on a film camera package within that range that allows me to shoot sound with stable image then I am all ears as well.

It would be primarily for short projects but I do have one feature that I began camera tests for years ago on 16mm that I would likely shoot with it at some point.

I have owned about 3 CP16s at different times and thought they were rather pleasant to deal with (once you make sure they work properly). I would consider owning another if it was converted to S16. If you are able to service one to reliable status and are interested in selling at a reasonable price, let me know.

I would like to keep everything < $10k and preferably no more than $8k for the body. And a Red Camera of any kind is completely off the table for me for personal reasons. Yeah, here I just touted how I am done with a film workflow but yet the image is still so alluring to me. However, the prices of film cameras (at least on eBay) are otherworldly when I need to consider the additional support I would need (and the film stock, processing, scan). I think I even saw a CP16R on eBay for $7k; that is absolute madness to me.

So are you recommending a Z-cam instead?

I have been looking into making a big camera purchase and I had my eyes on the Ursa 12k but many of the tests I have seen come out of that camera don't look like what I would have hoped. Not a bad image at all but just not my "flavor" I guess. Since it has been around for a while, there are a ton of tests from the Alexa Classic and, on eBay, those cameras can be had for not too much more than a new Ursa 12k. My question is if it is still a safe bet in 2021? I am doing this for shooting my own projects and maybe for some friends/colleagues in education if they need corp. videos or whatnot. I have never worked with one so it would be nice if the more professional among you can tell me: Is the Alexa pretty easy to learn for someone who has never used one? Will the camera still hold up after thousands of hours of use? I know dead pixels can be an issue for other cameras but I know Arri makes great stuff...will it last me a long time even purchased used? I realize it is a massive camera. I probably need to get a big camera to find something I like the image on if I cannot afford tens of thousands of dollars. How much does this camera weigh rigged out? Is the post workflow easy to deal with? I use Resolve for pretty much everything these days (with Audition to edit spoken word). What is a fair price to purchase one for these days (assume 4-6k hours on the sensor) Are there any competitors in the <$10k price range that you would consider first for those that like the Alexa look without going the Ursa 12k route? Thanks in advance to any who take the time to help me.

Now you have me revisiting this. I guess one is never truly done with grading...only happy for a minute. The video you put up was no doubt correct but I failed in my implementation of it because I was already applying what M. Joel said above with "video is more saturated in the highlights, film in the shadows. Some cameras (the Alexa in particular) emulate this aspect of film but the grade lets you do whatever. But if your final grade is desaturated it will never have "garish video hues." In the video though, I noticed he said that the saturation curve looked more like a nice round hill with the majority in the midtones with both shadows and highlights falling to their respective desaturated states. After trying this, I feel I was finally able to get more real saturation without increasing the brightness. Thanks for posting that video and continuing to add your insight!

No Fujifilm subforum? I realize they may not be as high end as some here work with but the X-T line is in the price tier to compete with BMPCC 4K and 6K.

...you find yourself enjoying obsessing over tiny details; whether they be endless camera tests, trying new editing techniques, nuances of color grading, etc. Do you ever find yourself so engrossed in the technical aspects of what you do that you find you cannot "stop and smell the roses?" I used to have wonder about making narrative works and I would write down script ideas, storyboard, etc but now I find that I seem to have more fun with endless research of gear, color grading practice, and experimenting with the best way to EQ audio instead of actually being motivated to do a project. If you have went through this, how did you snap out of it? Did you snap out of it? Why is it so easy to become consumed by technicals and gear instead of just working on projects? Thanks to all who contribute.

That aesthetic could definitely convey a feeling that not much else could. I could be wrong on this but I feel like that look would work better with 60 fps than with 24 as well.

This is a good point. If I recall correctly, the red was the lowest level of the emulsion above the clear and the remjet on the bottom. Fast and slow blue was on top with yellow filters between, and the green all before the red. Much of the digital footage I see seems like the red is the strongest for some reason. I am not going to pretend to understand the algorithms of how digital cameras process data but the red (and in the case of Sony, the magenta) shift is real.

I have yet to use the camera and I had thought about breaking the piggy bank to purchase one. However, messing around with Blackmagic's own samples, I feel that they are less cinematic than even the BMPCC 4k. I guess it all depends on what work you do with the camera but the built in NDs seem like a nice surprise for me (coming from no-budget land) but I am turned off by the size of the body. Some wont care (likely the more professional peoples around here who are used to massive rigged out cameras). Is there any benefit to this over the 6k Pro?

After taking everyone's viewpoints into consideration, I arrived at a look that I think looks pretty good. I admit that I had to get some help from a plugin to Resolve (I played around with Dehance) and that gave me the little bit of saturation control I needed to get a look I could live with. (Disclaimer: I am not paid by and I have no connection to Dehance; I haven't even decided if I am purchasing it as I am on the trial now but I probably will at least buy the lite version) Thanks again for everyone who gave input.

...not going to poke the bear...

I thought about this a lot since yesterday. I decided to pull up an old grab I had of my daughter from her younger days (it was shot on 16mm film and graded by Spectra). I was surprised that by "pixel peeping" the red on the stuffed bird's wing that it was much higher in red value (brighter) than what I was able to get on the Sony a6000 without adding a ton of saturation. This is interesting to me because I get the impression that many people assume film = desaturated but I haven't ever seen a desaturated grade come back from a lab (when I pay for the grade). Nonetheless, I will admit that film has a way of saturating that doesn't draw attention to itself. (16mm film screenshot below for reference)

So much truth! Thanks for your input.

nastygal.com? Do I even want to know?

Thanks for this. I am playing around with this in Resolve. I do agree that red is not as intense in reality (or on film) as it is when the saturation is increased on this image in Resolve. I am playing around to find a happy medium in the "Hue vs. Sat" portion. Although the "emissive vs reflective" is a bit of a judgment call, it does help to think of it that way. I realize I have crossed the line by a bit but with this info in hand, I can correct it.