Aapo Lettinen

I purchased couple of Leicina 8S camera bodies for being modified and for spare parts. Additionally I have one of the Leicina SV models (the one on the left which has zoom lens) which I am going to modify exclusively for my own use. It has different motor system so it is more work to modify it (a lot more expensive) so I am not planning on selling them but if someone is seriously interested in it I can maybe arrange something :) Some of the cameras had original bags too. The idea was that we can cherry pick the best working ones out of these to get two or three working S-model cameras which are overhauled to perfect condition and then use the rest for spare parts. So the project goes on pretty well so far. I have the needed camera bodies and parts and everything planned. Control system design is pretty much completed and now I will need to build the first crude circuit boards to test the final control system in action. There is one serious issue though. I am heavily relying on customer feedback when designing new stuff and I haven't got any responses from potential customers so far. I am sure there is people on this forum who are interested in this project but I cannot know without someone commenting or responding in some way to this thread. What do YOU think about this project? Is it a good idea in the first place? Did I forget some features which would be absolutely needed? Now that I threw that zoom model in, is there someone who would only be interested in the project if getting a camera which has a zoom lens? The fixed lens S-model was chosen because there is more of them available in relatively good condition and the built in prime lens is very good. The motors are easier to modify as well and it is possible to get spare ones more easily. The zoom model (8SV) is much more work to modify and repair and will thus be more expensive but I can investigate how to make it work if someone would like to order one. I am using that one in the picture for my own use :)

one important thing is that you can't grade an image which already has black bars in it (for example if having the 2.39 matte in your camera and wanting to keep those "original cropping bars" to the end but your image needs grading before release. If you would grade this type of image the bars would change colour as well. And you can't live with this so you would then later add NEW bars over the image which hide the original ones. The end result is the same than shooting originally with larger aperture and adding the bars later in post, BUT you will lose all the reframing possibilities and your aspect ratio changes a little (your originally planned 2.39 is now something like 2.41 ratio for example). So there is very rarely any reason to try to do final framing in the camera because you typically can't use that framing anyway in the end and you don't want the extra hassle of needing to get rid of of some useless black bars in the original image. So most often one shoots with the maximum frame area the film format allows and then crops in post, OR one uses a little bit larger aperture in camera to get for example 1.85 original image for 2.39 final image and, again, crops the image in post to the final dimensions. The only reason I can think of one would want to use original camera aperture would be if one would shoot reversal film for direct film projection of the original camera film and would want certain aspect ratio. THEN one could use for example 2.39 mask in the camera and project with 1.37 or 1.66 or 1.85 mask to show the original camera aperture framing in the final film. This is a very rare case though, making a single copy reversal silent film for direct projection. Some kind of arts piece maybe? not very practical in any case :)

typically with film projection one has a little smaller matte in the projector gate so that it actually crops the image a little bit MORE to get rid of the original camera aperture framing. Sometimes hard matting was done in the film printing as well, for example when doing blowups. If you are doing digital finishing you will typically scan the whole picture area you got including the original frame edges and maybe even more extra like some of the perforations and adjacent frames as well. Then you will crop the image later digitally to get the aspect ratio you want and to get perfect digitally made frame lines. As long as you can know the approximate final framing when shooting this will be totally fine and the camera gate aperture can be whatever can capture AT LEAST the area you need in the final image. So the original camera aperture is not used very often for actual framing. One can of course use 2.39 or 1.85 mask in the camera aperture and do for example contact prints out of that negative and then project it with 1.37 or 1.66 gate for example so that the original camera aperture framing can be seen. But most often one wants to shoot a little wider and introduce the framelines in post to get more precise framelines AND to get better contrast to them (better blacks to the frame bars) . You can for example shoot 4-perf 35mm for digital finishing with spherical lenses for 2.39 final ratio and use 1.85 mask in the aperture. then either crop the image after the digital post is done (for 2.39 DCP formats) or to introduce 2.39 black bars to it (when doing TV and VOD release formats which are typically native 16:9 files with black bars if they allow the movie to not be pan-scan) . OR you can again introduce bars to fit the 2.39 image to the "spherical" DCP formats which are 1.85:1 natively. You will always want to introduce bars in the latest post production stage possible, no matter whether doing digital or film production and independent of the other workflow. With digital you will get soft and crappy looking bars too if you introduce them early on and then try to live with them throughout the post pipeline. Typically you need to add NEW bars in the end which are couple of pixels smaller than the original ones were to get rid of the soft and low contrast and possible compressed original bars. So typically NO final cropping added until you absolutely have to. Always in the latest stage possible. One additional reason for this is that intercutting different cameras would not be seamless if the original camera gate would be seen because every camera has a little bit different gate aperture (sometimes so clearly different that you can recognise which specific camera serial number it was if you have used it before)

I am making optical encoder tests too! a prototype encoder made out of a cheap plastic gear. The final encoder disc will be CNC machined from better materials to ensure proper balance but this kind of hand made one can be easily used for all testing purposes. I am working on a self made optical sensor circuit which reads the light changes caused by the rotating encoder disc and converts them to electric pulses which can be used by the Crystal Sync system. Needs some prototyping and experimenting :) the sensor needs to be integrated to the same circuit board than the rest of the control system which is why it is easier to design my own sensor system than trying to adapt an existing factory made sensor+preamp board to fit (most of the factory made ones don't even fit inside the camera so easier to just make your own then)

I noticed that some collector is hoarding all the Cameflex motors from eBay and this means that there will soon be more camera bodies than there will be motors available. SO. A CHANGE OF PLANS. I will still do the crystal modification to the Type24 motor at some point. But that will probably be single-speed 25fps modification I will use only for my own shooting. No one was interested in the Type24 modification anyway so there is no point of doing it for others I think :D ANYWAY. Because there will soon be more cameras available than there is motors, I think it would be possible to manufacture a completely new motor which fits Cameflex cameras and has multi-speed crystal sync control. A completely new motor with control box which has a display and, say, from 10 to 20 selectable speeds? I have a control box setup under construction which can be used for this system. Lots of display options, footage counter and so on. Connected to the motor via a short cable so that you can mount the control box to a point where you can easily see the display when operating the camera. Let me know what you think. Completely new Crystal sync Cameflex motor which has at least 10 crystal speeds, a display etc. and the price will be well under 1K ? Anyone would need this type of system? I could make one in couple of months if I would know someone would order it .

I haven't got the reversal process working correctly by myself yet but by my bad experiences, most of the problems seem to always be linked to the bleach stage one way or another when using the potassium permanganate based bleach. I have managed to get the emulsion completely fall off leaving only clear film behind and so on.(not the Foma bleach but a similar style diy mixed one). it just needs lots of testing to get it to work it seems.... I am intending to test Sodium Persulphate based bleach at some point. I have heard it is used in some processes and I have lots of that chemical because it is used for etching circuit boards

Included lenses are at least the 9mm Dygon and the original lens hood for the built-in 15mm lens. Both in excellent condition. One of the original carrying bags is included as well. The original carrying strap for the camera is included too. When the rest of the cameras arrive I will look if I can throw anything extra in. I have to purchase two or three camera kits to build up one great working and nice looking final one so that is why I'll have some extra lenses and bags available. So it looks like we have two kits available for preorder if anyone is interested ? the exact price needs to be calculated but if someone is already seriously interested you can PM me and I will find out how much a kit would cost.

the thing is, actual Cameflex kits are rarely sold. Or the camera bodies. Someone just buys the bare motors and nothing else. That is some weird behaviour by my opinion

I am following eBay listings for various camera models multiple times a day and I have noticed couple of times in a row that whenever there is any kind of spare Cameflex motors on sale, someone immediately buys them in only couple of hours. The weird thing is that they never seem to resurface again in eBay or elsewhere. Not repaired, not as a part of a larger camera package. So it seems that it is not a reseller trying to make some profit by purchasing for peanuts and then selling for higher price. These cameras are pretty rare for people to actually shoot with so I can't imagine a single person really needing tons of motors for any real world use. To me it seems that someone really purchases these motors just to fill their inventory with them for some unknown reason. Does someone really collect just the bare motors without cameras? Because I have seen something like 10 motors go in an instant and never coming back in one form or another. Pretty sad thing for persons who would want to purchase a Cameflex kit but all of them lack the original motor and there is no motors available because someone somewhere is sitting on a huge pile of motors which don't seem to ever be used for anything ?

Some years ago this same person was inventing some stories about the beginning of the H16 camera. When I asked him to justify his assumption, he stopped answering e-mails. Well, on the other thread I proposed that I could at least look at the camera and try to figure out what is wrong with it IF no one else is willing to try to repair it or if there is no one else working on them anymore. By my opinion, it is better to AT LEAST TRY to repair something than just easily abandon it as "unrepairable" and throw it away or let it sit on the shelf for years. I have heard that there is lots of "unrepairable" Cinema Products cameras out there as well because people are not even trying to get them to work. I would like to try to build new crystal sync electronics to them if I had one here so that the old cameras could be revived and returned back to service. Don't know what is wrong with that... at least it is better option than let them sit on the shelf for decades or make lamp shades out of them like someone did to a poor Bolex and some movie projectors ?

Excellent! so it sounds like you are close to getting it work in stabilised speed. How does it get the speed measurement and how do you write the desired motor power in the code? With my old "speed-stabilised" system I used PulseIn function to read the frequency from the motor encoder (the PulseIn function on Arduino uses microseconds measurements of the pulse duration and this can be easily calculated to frequency measurement number) . Then this number is compared to the target speed number you want to reach (with 10-slot encoder that would be 250.00 Hz for 25fps). With if-functions or similar you can change how the system changes the motor power if the speed measurement number is lower or higher than the target. And how much it changes that if the difference is small or large. So you will create a loop where high speed measurement number compared to the target reduces motor power and low measurement raises motor power. It is up to you and needs to be defined by testing how much of a change it needs to be to get the best constant speed accuracy with the least amount of oscillation. With my old system I used an integer where I stored the current motor power number and if the speed measurement was higher than desired the code reduced the value of the integer and if it was lower it added to it. Then the value of this integer was written to the pwm output. You need to take care of the possible overflows and the uncontrolled large power value fluctuations (remember that the program loop is running at least hundreds of times per second so it may change the motor power between 0 and 100% back and forth without the mechanical system having enough time to respond. So it can adjust the power too quickly. So you probably need to figure out how to slow down the speed changes a little so that the program does not over compensate but responds at a pace the actual motor and camera movement is able to follow. So you will probably want a integer which stores the motor power value. And a speed measurement number which you can compare to the target speed you want. This way you can calculate the speed difference and change the motor power integer value up or down as needed. Finally you will write this value to the motor controller. Keep in mind that the loop easily over compensates so try to start with small changes first and test how it behaves. You need some kind of accurate speed measurement device to see how the system behaves. Adding more inertia to the system tends to make it run at too high speed if you keep the adjustment values the same. so you may need to lower them even more then. You just need to test a lot to figure out the correct numbers. But as said, start with low corrections first to avoid throwing the motor power constantly from 0 to 100% which creates lots of inaccuracy and oscillations. small is better in this case ?

Thanks! I got the Leicina S to work in crystal sync as well. Currently having another project as well which uses external control box to house the electronics. I am developing the display functions and user interface for it at the moment, so much fun! Making a new user interface is the most interesting part of modifying cameras by my opinion :) Anyway, I hope you get the brushless motor system working soon! I have another project as well, I am finally intending to modify my Soyuz US3N camera to crystal sync at the end of the year. For it I purchased these motors because the camera does not have any original motors and this Chinese motor model seemed suitable. https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC12-24V-30W-permanent-magnet-motor-double-shaft-ball-bearing-generator-motor/142341645472?hash=item21243924a0:g:9pkAAOSwbWpegW1e So I am developing a Crystal Sync modification for those 12v 30w motors which is not camera dependent (as long as the gear ratio between the motor and the movement is known by me and the motor power is enough to run the camera at stable speed). If, at some point, it seems that you still want to change the goal back to brushed motors and traditional Crystal Sync, it is possible for me to build you one of those 30w motor systems with the external control box with display and multiple speeds which uses that Chinese 30w motor where I have already installed the encoder. OR just a basic cheaper control system with one single speed and no display if you want :) Then it should work with different cameras by just making a mechanical axle adapter and support system for it by yourself. Needs some fine tuning of course but this is definitely an option if you are interested :)

oct18 mount itself protrudes pretty far inside the PL mount and can cause problems just by itself. additionally there is a fork or some other type of additional system which keeps the center optical block from rotating when the mount is rotated on focusing the lens. This additional piece of metal on the back of the adapter takes even more space inside the PL mount. I have understood that all this is way too much for the Alexa or Amira cameras to handle. Have not tested it personally but every rental house and adapter maker has said that so it is probably pretty accurate. The oct18 Lomos are great lenses but they don't fit every camera and cannot be adapted to any system there is (just like any other lens is not compatible with all the cameras in the world). Of course it can be tested if you can just barely get it work with that particular Alexa, you never know until testing by yourself :)

The frame rates are by current plans: - 25.00 fps - 24.00 fps - 18.00 fps - 16.00fps - one lower fps which is either 12fps or 8fps. I have one unused divider so it is not extra work to add the 5th speed. But let me know which one of these would be more practical?

I can check again how those Century adapters would work on 16mm camera lenses. Practically testing them with GH4 and c-mount adapter so that the focus issues can be checked too. Just thinking that they could be usable on Dual8 and Super8 where the lenses and focal lengths are generally small. But at least some 16mm lenses should work with them too. Don't know how practical it is to shoot a entire short film with one but it is always interesting to test this kind of stuff :)

Everyone including the adapter makers and our local rental houses say that the oct18 ones don't work with the Alexas or Amiras. Have not tested by myself but I have understood that the problem is the actual oct18 mount touching the filter stack holder or other part inside the alexa pl mount. So it is mount dependent I have understood. I believe there is some oct19 ones which can work when adapted and some of the zooms could be adapted too. The oct18 are very good lenses with nice look but s35 is at the very edge of their capability on wider than 50 and the 35mm may vignette a little whereas on the 28/2 you will see uncorrected retrofocus distortion on the edges which looks pretty weird. 50mm upwards tends to cover apsH or full frame. I remember the 50 maybe barely covers full frame. At least it is close. If having a good adapter they can be focused reasonably well but you need to individually pair the adapter and the lens to get best functionality because there is slight differences in the tolerances of the adapter locks and wear of the mounts. Try couple of similar adapters to find the best working pairs. On another thread you said you use eva1 at the moment. These lenses would be great with it if using pl mount (if they clear the mount. They should).

I had some test material shot on Bolex and Nikkors with one of the Century 1.33x video camera adapters. Checked it and it was not good enough looking to be used as a reference. I rarely shoot anything with these adapters anymore and could sell at least one of them as long as I would know that the buyer really could use it for their actual filming and would be happy with it. well, what are you actually wanting to do with this type of adapter? if I remember correctly from my previous tests (many years have passed) they would only usable if the takeup lens was both pretty wide angle (actual focal length, NOT field of view) so that it can be focused reasonably well, AND the takeup lens has small enough front element so that it can be easily used without vignetting. Using longer focal lengths is usually possible on very limited scale by using diopters to enable focusing to a limited distance range at a time. If you are interested in this option, I can try to find a lens combination which works well enough with the adapter. It definitely needs to be shorter than 28mm takeup lens but have to test it out again. If you are wanting to use the combination with a small format camera like a M4/3 or a 16mm camera then a working combination should be possible to find which does not vignette and can be focused reasonably well. Personally I think that this type of adapters mainly work on stylistic effects shots and other options are much better choices for normal shooting. But the look is pretty interesting if you can get it work. And they have killer flares, one of the nicest looking I have seen on anamorphic in general :)

Proper dual focus system could be made by mechanical means (the preferred method) but it is also possible to make with servo motors and some clever custom programming. For indie use one coud probably make a working solution from basic Arduino parts having enough time and tools. The system could be made to include wireless focus options as well

I made a "proof of concept" type of test today and ran the camera on crystal sync with all the basic components in place. It works correctly but my camera is not in very good mechanical condition and proper overhaul would greatly enhance speed stability. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0cEqkdUnaQ But like I said, it works. This is not the final system in any way and I am using different circuit design for the final one. I just wanted to show what I am doing to the camera right now and how I am testing stuff with it. The commentary is pretty interesting if anyone is interested in how these systems actually do the speed stabilization. Check out my other crystal sync test videos as well :) Btw I secured some basic Leicina S kits from eBay for my tests. But I have enough of these cameras to build one or two final systems out of them and Simon can make proper overhaul to them to restore them in the best possible condition. If anyone is interested in this type of option, let us know :)

I was so curious about the Leicina's auto exposure system that I already opened the front part of the camera to check it out. It needs a little bit more work to get it working it seems and there will be two different options how the exposure system of the camera can be modified: A. Two extra wires are attached inside the camera body to run stabilised power for the light meter. So the additional light meter battery is not needed anymore at all ( the light meter battery compartment is left original looking so that the outer body of the camera is not altered. Automatic exposure works like before. No manual exposure. Probably no additional calibration made to the exposure system though I will adjust the supply voltage of the light meter so that it is as close as possible to the target to get proper readings. This light meter power replacement feature will be developed in any case and will be attached in the cameras which have the crystal sync update. B. Light meter battery replaced with internal wires so that you don't need separate light meter battery just like in the update A. But a Manual Exposure Dial is manufactured and attached to get full manual exposure approximately calibrated in T stops ( I will work on this only if it gains enough interest. It needs lots of testing and calibrating, film tests and some machining job done. Price will be thus also higher and this will thus be an additional feature in any case. So let me know if you are interested in this manual exposure feature. Otherwise this feature will be delayed a lot or not developed at all.) . With this update, Automatic Exposure is limited or not possible at all (will know if there is enough interest on this feature so that I can start working on it) . --------------------------- Feature list of the camera update I am currently working on: - all features powered by one battery. No separate light meter battery needed - similar exposure system than the original camera has (let me know if you want full manual exposure. It is possible but it is lots more work and I need to know if it's needed or not or otherwise I will not work on the manual exposure feature for now) - battery options TBA. I will probably add some type of voltage regulation so that one can use a range of different batteries from 6 or 7 v upwards. I would like this to work on LP-E6 batteries for my own use so I will most likely work on that option among others. I will test the 9v batteries as well how they would work with the camera mod. - FRAME RATES! I will add at least 16fps, 24fps and 25fps for sync sound shooting. All very accurate crystal speeds. But does someone need 18fps? let me know at early stage because it will change the circuit boards and I will need to know early on. I am unsure if the camera body can handle more than 30fps. maybe I could test it because I have a additional camera body which is just for spare parts and can be sacrificed. Not promising anything though at this stage. - Start - Stop button on the side of the camera so that the handle does not need to be used for start and stop of filming. Also easier to start the camera on tripod. - Speed selector on the side of the camera. I have to check what would be most convenient. Simon originally proposed that the outer body of the camera should not be altered to keep the classic original look but I will try to make all the Crystal speeds internal and easily selectable so the selector is necessary to install. --------------------------- Very early to ask but how many persons would be interested in this Leicina S camera update with that feature list? The Leicina seems to be very good camera so after the update it will be really useful for indie films, music videos and similar type of material. There is of course lots of work to do these updates and the camera needs to be serviced as well to be in good mechanical condition (Simon can arrange CLA for these Leicinas easily) . But it will be a real workhorse after these electronics updates and CLA. So it will be absolutely worth it ?

I purchased two extra Leicina S cameras as well to get more lenses for my own use and to be able to disassemble one completely to reveal how the exposure control could be connected to the new electronics boards I'm going to make. Will also get some spare parts that way :) I am going to run some Crystal Sync tests this weekend if I have time. As said I already know it is going to work (my sync system works and the motor itself works and the encoder works as well. so all the components of the system work correctly and I just need to connect them together, do some basic adjustments and shoot a video out of it :D Then I can start designing the final circuits and the circuit boards. The exposure system needs to be figured out first so I need to disassemble one of the extra cameras to see how to control it efficiently. If there is a possibility for it, I will maybe try to replace the exposure meter battery with an internal voltage regulator which takes power from the same battery than the rest of the electronics. So it is some prototyping now and then lots of circuit design :)

I have seen lots of people on the forum use Eclair cameras for that type of stuff. the ACL seems to be their favourite but the NPR could probably be used as well. There is other options as well. Do all your lenses cover S16 and are in C-mount ? eBay cameras always need some kind of CLA before any serious use. That should be calculated in the total costs when considering a camera purchase. the orientable finder is a huge advantage so I would try to find the Eclair just for that reason. though a converted one in good condition may cost quite a lot. Sometimes one can get good deals on Russian cameras but they tend to need lots of CLA and small repairs before use. On the electric ones, the motor control electronics can be changed to modern better ones to make them reliable. Should be a little cheaper alternative than the Eclair though they don't have C-mount (lenses are pretty affordable though). They should be easier to S16 modify than Bolexes though don't know about the prices

hmm the VPN approach could be worth trying! These trailers are interesting in their own right so I can try to study them as well :) Something in the resembles old propaganda films which makes them interesting even when the editing seemed to be quite bad (or even for just that reason :D ) There may be some fundamental differences between countries on what is considered objective enough to fall in to the "documentary" category and at what point it becomes too biased so that it starts to resemble plain propaganda or ads more than something which we northern europeans would call a "real documentary" (that would be something that tries to show both sides of the story in as objective way as possible even if the filmmaker disagrees with some of the opinions. NOT in the way that "Trump Card" trailers does, cutting pieces from here and there which fit the filmmaker's and his supporters own agenda and tries to make the opposite to look as bad as possible)

I was dumbfounded seeing this type of political advertising in the form of an independent documentary film trailer https://trailers.apple.com/trailers/independent/trump-card/ Especially how they have edited the trailer. The subject matter is interesting, but in Europe we don't call this type of films "documentaries" and I am unsure if some type of regulatory agency would want to interfere this type of stuff if released here. When seeing what the filmmaker has released before in which exact years, I think the motivations of these can be guessed pretty well. But political things aside, this format is pretty interesting I think and I would like to know more examples of it. These are a bit rarer here in Europe so I have not seen anything quite similar before. Is there any other good examples of clever or less clever political advertising in the form of feature length documentary films from all around the world?

designing the circuit board for the oscillator section of one of the motor projects (Crystal Sync update for one of the original Konvas motors. This update uses external box to house the control electronics). It is pretty slow work to design the actual circuit boards but the work advances all the time. I have updated the system menus a little making them more efficient and have also updated the PWM frequency of the motor control to 38kHz so that the motor does not create additional sound under load anymore. This high speed PWM is a major update and necessary for all the designs if one wants to do real sound work with them. I will make a video of the menu system at some point. It is pretty fun to design the user interface. My favourite part of the project actually ?