Richard Tuohy

Hi that stock is aviphot. I have cross processed it in super 8 in ecn chemistry. Grain was unbelievable! It was like pictures drawn with a blunt crayon. virtually abstract.

Yep, the model c is much more recent than the model d. the c has a separate sound head. It is the bulb for that head we need

Hi, I'm currently in jakarta helping the folk here at the artist run lab, lab laba lab (spider lab). We have made a lovely optical printer live, and have built a frame by frame telecine. Last time we were here we resurrected a model c printer. Now they want it's sound head to work. One problem is we have no bulb. Could someone help with identifying the type of bulb needed? There is a remote.chance we can find one here, but we need as much info about it a possible. Many thanks Richard

Hi Scott, Robert's example above looks good. It looks typical of BW reversal film. Its not that reversal is inherently low contrast. Far from it. But with reversal film, exposure is everything. Overexposure in reversal means low contrast, fine grain, no blacks (and low colour saturation with colour reversal). Under exposure means higher contrast, higher grain (and high colour saturation). Note that when the camera drops down and you can see the steering wheel there is a dense black then. Exposure has the same effect as with Plus-x reversal as UN54 as anyother bw reversal.

No. There is no in camera compensation you can make with old film that is to be processed as reversal, at least with regards fogging.

That's not too say there aren't countless 'secrets' that kodak could pass on which would be of enormous help in trying to make a modern type emulsion in a different facility...

I assume you mean a metaphorical billion dollars. Their patent or formulas wouldn't be worth anything of the sort. A 'recipie' for emulsion making at that extraordinary level is specific to the plant making it. You can't just substitute a completely different set of equipment with different mixing volumes etc and get the same result. even with Kodak's help it would cost a fortune to work out how to make a stock like 50d in a completely different facility with completely different equipment. Emulsion making is really really tough. Long live kodak.

Hey Valerian Did you.get my pm? Richard

Pro 8 are the only people in the world at up to perforate perforated 35mm to super8. indeed I wonder if anyone else has ever done it commercially. I once had wittner do a test for me of perforating a 100 ft roll of perforated 35. Their perforator is for perfing unperforated 35. They were able to get 2 x super 8 from that. The other two had 35mm perforations. The thing is those perforations made it difficult for them to do.

Pro 8 are the only people in the world at up to perforate perforated 35mm to super8. indeed I wonder if anyone else has ever done it commercially. I once had wittner do a test for me of perforating a 100 ft roll of perforated 35. Their perforator is for perfing unperforated 35. They were able to get 2 x super 8 from that. The other two had 35mm perforations. The thing is those perforations made it difficult for them to do.

Hi peter Richard here What you have by the sounds of it is kodak ecn developer kit chemisprocessingand part B . Really this is all you need. The products you have are of course intended for machine processing rather than very small lomo tank processing which is what you are doing. replenisher per say is a higher and different concentration of developer ingredients than working strength developer. But the same kit components are used to mix up ecn dev replenisher as are used to mix working strength or 'fresh tank' developer, with the exception that fresh tank developer also uses another kit component called 'starter'. This starter is as simon mentioned basically bromide. It is added to fresh tank developer to effectively turn it on to developer that is 'seasoned'; basically like developer that has already been used. This is necessary with machine processing because otherwise the first rolls you put through the machine will be getting more development than the subsequent rolls. You see each time you put film into a developer bromides etc are released from the film. Bromide is a retainer again as simon pointed out, so used dev is less active than unused dev. Now during processing in a machine, replenisher is continuously being slowly added to the tank, displacing some of the existing tank solution. This continuously reinvigorates the strength of the developer but there will always be bromides etc in there released from the development film. The kit components are referred to as replenisher components because with machine processing you only occasionally replace all the chemistry in the tank and start again. By far most of the developer you mix up is at replenisher strength rather than working solution or starter strength. But, with the addition of the ingredient called starter, the same ingredients are used for replenisher and working strength fresh tank developer. So, upshot is, you could buy yourself a bottle of the ecn dev starter... But you can't buy that readily in Australia. And blessed kodak will also never tell you exactly what is in that bottle. But, and this is the most important bit, for diy developing in a lomo tank you don't need to fuss replenishment of your tiny 1.6 litre quantity of dev - simply use different dev times from use to use as you do with all other developers when processing by hand in a small tank. For practical purposes this is absolutely fine. You aren't in need of the level of process consistency aimed at in a commercial facility. And anyway there is no reason you couldn't get that with tank processing of you worked out your times accurately enough anyway. So here is what to do. Go to the Kodak kit chemistry instructions which are with the h24 processing manuals etc on their website. Find the mixing ratio for ecn part a and part B for fresh tank solution rather than replenisher solution. The specified ratio will also specify an about of starter per litre. Simply omit this. Now, depending on how rough and ready you want to be (and I suggest this is exactly what you want fined you are doing it just for yourself and you will base your future camera exposures and dev times on these very results) develop away for three minutes and enjoy the results. Next roll try developing in the same now used developer for say 3.5 minutes. Compare the results and adjust times in the future accordingly. get the idea? This will be absolutely fine. Enjoy! Rt

And I wonder how its done, given 70mm print stock no longer has magnetic stripe on it. But, it was done for 'The Master'

Many people have enquired with kodak about unperforated film. To my knowledge no one has ever succeeded. But the world keeps changing. You would need to expect that any positive answer came with a lot of zeroes in the price. A lot.

I think the best remaining option would be to use 7363/5363 Hi-con. Yes it isn't the carbon black but it is acetate and it make an excellent black. It is also relatively cheap.

Personally I don't think fading will be an issue. I've done this sort of thing a number of times and never noticed a fade problem. People have been running loops in galleries for a long time now. The issue is scratching and wear and tear. The trick is make sure the projector is clean clean clean and same with the film. But most importantly, make sure the film doesn't touch ANYTHING in its path around. As Dom says, metal key ring rings are good as the film passing through them will only touch on the edges. And use rollers made from plastic spools with rubber bands on the edges. Remember, the image area of the film mustn't touch anything. What may happen is that a belt in teh projector breaks. Have some spare rubber O-rings handy that fit at least the main drive belt of the projector. Take the projector to a place that sells roller bearings. You can find roller bearing sellers in the phone book or google. Such places also sell O-rings. have a bunch. And a spare globe. Your splice needs to be perfect as that is the point at which the system is most likely to break down. Your splice could catch on one of the rings or a roller, or else just trip up in the gate and cause the loop to drop. That is when the film will get damaged to the point that it may no longer work as a loop. But with care, you can do this. It's been done many times. rt

Bear in mind that colour intermediate film is colour balanced for duplicating orange masked film using a tungsten light source. Colour internegative on the other hand is basically a very slow speed tungsten film. So, yes, you can use it as a camera film ... that is very slow and tungsten balanced. Assuming the motivation for this is price, sadly the internegative film is at least as expensive as camera film.

Just an update: I now have been able to connet the cue notch detector directly to the manual cue button of the high speed reader. This means I can make manual colour changes using the 24 points of the trim dials and have then actuated on a notch. This is pretty neat, since I don't have a tape puch writer. I am still looking for a few spare parts for other Model C printers I have. I want to get a 16mm model C working in my lab, and another in our artist run community lab in melbourne - artistfilmworkshop.org So, if anyone has some spares where they work ... I'd like to get my hands on some of the following bits: a pair of the spring loaded tensioning pointers that keep the neg and print under tension before the gate. a 16mm rubber gate roller AC and DC power in cables (with those odd bakalite ends) a lamp socket for the smaller sized lamps. the type of socket that has its position adjustments inside the lamp house, rather than below it a 35mm roller that has the profile for the notch detector switch (right now I am using such a roller from a schmitzer head but the shaft on that roller is a tiny bit thinner, so its a bit loose). a notch detector switch The machines I have had all been canabalised. i have 5 of them in total, and am trying to get three together, so if anyone can help, please let me know. (Chris (Park Rd) a sent you a message, wondering if you got it)

well, studious use of the manual has yielded success! Mine is the high speed reader. I had neglected the large rectifier that is supposed to sit on the base of the printer stand. But it turned out I had one of these, and amazingly given its appearance, it turned out to work. So, thank you very much for listening and being willing to help gentlemen. No doubt other questions will emerge as I begin to use it. all the best, richard

Thanks Chris and Brian, I found a manual for the printer in one of the myriad boxes. That will help. But yes, I'd like to show you some pictures of the unit to see if there is anything else you can suggest. Just now I tested whether there was 120v at the 3 pin cable that runs from the control pannel to the motor and there wasn't. So I patched 120v directly into that cable and sure enough the motor ran, so it ain't the motor itself that isn't working. I obviously just haven't yet been able to get power to that socket. I don't have any tape or a tape punch, which is a bummer. my puch reader is older than the one you show there Chris (I know where there is one exactly like that in someone's garage, but they want too much for it!). I'll post a picture of the model I have. all the best, richard

It must be that the bleach isn't strong enough i am afraid. I know a recipie for an alternative R9 bleach that involves 65 grams of Sodium bisulfate, but that is a using Potasiium dichromate, not the pemangenate variant. I read just now a post in an email group I am involved in where someone who wanted to replace dichromate with Permangenate in a bleach that uses Sodium bisulfate as the acidifier, and they calculated they would need 275 grams of the bisulfate per litre in that instance. I suggest you try using Potasium dichromate 10g with Sodium bisulfate 65g. That does work.

Hi fellow labrats, richard from nanolab in Australia here. I have acquired a number of Model C printers in various states of repair. I have cobbled together a 35mm printer and most of two 16mm printers. Right now I am at the stage of turning the 35mm printer on. I have sorted the 120 volt AC and connected that. I have connected the DC supply. I have a punch tape reader connected. I have connected all the connectors that I can make sense of. With the power switch on, the lamp switch will turn on and off the lamp fan. I haven't inserted a bulb in the lamp house yet. The DC volt scale lights up as do a couple of other little lights on the main control pannel (footage rate, etc). But nothing I do seems to make the motor actually run. Nor am I able to get any life out of the light vanes. While I don't have a punch writer (ie paper tape punch for the punch tape reader), i was hoping of using the three trim controlls to make basic light adjustments. There is an RF and notch detector for changes. I hope that it will be possible to load values into the trim controlls, and have those values activated by the notch detector. It does make sense to me that the light vanes may not move or show signs of life until the motor is running. The motor has a power cable as well as a multi pin cable connecting to the puch tape reader. But there are also two other cables (coming from the same part of the motor housing as the cable that connects to the punch tape reader). I don't seem to have anywhere for these two cables. Those cables are of the same vintage and type as the other multi pin cables on the printer - ie 1960s style aluminium casing with a screw collar, unlike the extra cables on the Schmitzer model C printer's motor (yes, have two Schmitzers too), which is a flat ribon type multi strand thing. So, my question is, anyone have any thoughts as to what I need to do to get the motor to run? To be honest, I have only used a model c printer once. There are the three pesky buttons - Auto, Test and Stop. Does one normally just press 'Auto' to make the thing run? Are there microswitches somewhere that need to be closed in order for the thing to run? Will it not work without a bulb in the lamp house? I notice that when i connect the dc and turn on the lamp, the dc meter moves to the left, as though the dc power has the wrong polarity. This could, I guess, be because there is no bulb ... maybe. So, I am keen to get this going. And I am keen for any suggestions! many thanks richard

I'm a bit unsure of what you are reporting. Are you going on to second develop the film and are still getting a negative? Or are you saying that after bleaching you can still see black metailic silver in the negative areas of the film? Of course, after bleaching, you can still see images on the film. This is becuase you still have Silver halide there on the film. So it will look different from the result you got when you dunked already processed (ie already fixed) film in the bleach. But maybe you are already aware of that. So, if you are finding that you still have metalic silver on the film after the bleach bath, then there simply isn't enough strength in the bleach bath to do the job. I have never substituted Sodium bisulphate for Sulphuric acid, but I believe it works. However you do need a lot of the bisulphate if I recall the formula. What rate of Sodium bisulphate are you using? cheers, richard

besides, I doubt there will ever be a 'good' movie made in 3d anyway. Its pretty much kids stuff / popcorn factory stuff, not cinema.

HI Chris, yes, and yes. you can use the same process as you do for your 35mm - if it works for that it will work for super 8 tri-x. you can stuff the film in the little 35mm tank. Bear in mind that in doing so, the film won't come out perfectly developed. There will be parts of the film that were touching each other that wont develop, and there will be some scratches where wet emulsion gets cut into by the edge of other parts of the film. This is the classic 'home procssed super 8' look. To get good results, you would need to buy a 15 meter Lomo tank. enjoy rt

a lot of effor there in putting that detailed explanation together (not to mention being able to service the things as well!). great work.