"Sleep Always" Super-duper-8 feature

[Guest Ian Marks]

Has anyone seen this movie? It was shot on Super-8 with an extended gate, and I'm wondering how good or bad it looks. I've been thinking of popping for the DVD, but I thought I'd ask for your impressions first.

[Nate Downes]

I own a copy, looks very good in all honesty. While not perfect, it is more of an art-house film than anything, it does show a lot of strength of the Super8 medium, and really impressed this filmmaker.

[Anthony Schilling]

I just watched it again a couple weeks ago. I enjoyed the story personally. It looks surprisingly good if you consider the technical aspects.. shot at 18fps, DIY telecine, and the use of S-8 7240, they pulled it off very well. The grain isn't bad either, they did use a wider gate.

[Chris Burke]

I saw it and own a DVD, only because I was curious about the look of S8. It does look good considering the afore mentioned production path. I thought the story and acting were quite weak. I did not believe or feel invested in the lead character and the story was a bit under developed. I will sell you my copy for ten bucks.

[Guest Ian Marks]

Thanks everyone. I was thinking of buying the DVD from the "Sleep Always" website because I thought it might be a good example of what could be done with Super 8 when it's treated like a professional medium, but if it doesn't sound like this is it... I don't understand why they would take the time to widen the gate and then shoot at 18fps...

[Rick Palidwor]

Allow me to jump in as the co-director/producer of Sleep Always.

 

We shot at 18 fps, knowing it was not the wisest thing to do, because our projector is only equipped with a 3-bladed shutter. To transfer at 24 fps requires a 5-bladed shutter, which can be difficult to obtain. Co-director Mitch Perkins used to work at a local super 8 lab and he recalled that they had to have a five-bladed shutter specially made for them many years ago and it was a big hassle. Given that we were anxious to get going we decided to go ahead at 18. I don't think the image quality suffered in a serious way - it was just a hassle for the sound team during post since film shot at 18 is actually transferred at 20fps. If that sounds odd, given that we went to the hassle of widening the gate, Mitch has been experimenting with widening gates for over 15 years, so that part was old hat to us.

 

While some people have valid criticisms about the story and the cast, most viewers have found these elements more than satisfactory (which surprised us as we know it's not perfect). Check our reviews on the IMDB and other comments posted on our site.

 

Story and cast aside, most viewers (or at least the ones we have heard from, so there is a built in bias there) are unanimous that it is one of the best looking super 8 movies they have seen. In other words, I think you have to judge for yourself.

 

We've just learned that Sleep Always is being awarded the "best feature" prize at the New Jersey International Flm Festival. It screens there on June 24, 25 and 26.

 

Rick

[David Mullen ASC]

We shot at 18 fps, knowing it was not the wisest thing to do, because our projector is only equipped with a 3-bladed shutter. To transfer at 24 fps requires a 5-bladed shutter, which can be difficult to obtain.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I would have thought that the SLOWER frame rate would need the 5-bladed shutter to reduce flicker more than the faster frame rate.

[Rick Palidwor]

David Mullen wrote:

"I would have thought that the SLOWER frame rate would need the 5-bladed shutter to reduce flicker more than the faster frame rate."

 

I don't have a reference in front of me but it is definitely 3-bladed for 20 fps and 5-bladed for 24 fps when doing a film-chain transfer to 29.97 interlaced video. With the new 24p video cameras the 3-bladed shutter will suffice for 24 fps.

 

Rick

[Nate Downes]

Rick, it's still $50 CDN for converting a cameras gate, correct?

[Rick Palidwor]

Rick, it's still $50 CDN for converting a cameras gate, correct?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes.

 

Rick

[Scot McPhie]

Hey Rick - just wondering what you're up to now? - anymore SD8 featrues in the pipeline?

 

Scot

[Nate Downes]

Alright, I'll be sending one your way in the next few weeks. Time to get my productions on the road.

[Rick Palidwor]

Hey Rick - just wondering what you're up to now? - anymore SD8 featrues in the pipeline?

 

Scot

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Unfortunately, as you may know from your own work, it seems like I am destined to spend the rest of my lift marketing my last film, just to recoup. I am writing a couple new feature scripts but they look like big-budget stories where I'll be looking to sell the script to someone with the resources to get them made. But I shot a b&w (plus x) super-duper short for someone the other day!!

 

Are you still marketing In My Image?

 

Rick

[Nate Downes]

If i had my way, I'd be producing 5 to 7 pieces, then go around with all of them. The same technique used by distributors such as New Line to get more of their material distributed. A potential buyer likes one product, you won't sell unless he takes all of them. Also forces the price up for the group, as one distributor may like one piece, and another one likes something else, so they bid up the total price even tho they don't like the same bits.

[Rick Palidwor]

If i had my way, I'd be producing 5 to 7 pieces, then go around with all of them.  The same technique used by distributors such as New Line to get more of their material distributed.  A potential buyer likes one product, you won't sell unless he takes all of them.  Also forces the price up for the group, as one distributor may like one piece, and another one likes something else, so they bid up the total price even tho they don't like the same bits.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's a wonderful theory and I don't doubt it's merit (from a distributor POV) but when it takes at least two years to make each feature it's not practical. By the time you get the 3rd one done the 1st is considered "too old" for the festival circuit, etc. If New Line shops 5 or more at a time they came from 5 different filmmakers. Like I said, it's a valid theory but it's a distributor POV, not a filmmaker's.

 

Rick

[Nate Downes]

Not too familiar with New Line, are you? New Line is the home of Roger Corman, one of the most prolific producers in the business. He produces many movies a year, and this is the reason why.

 

But, my thinking is, why don't filmmakers bunch-up and assault the distributors en masse? Say you, Scottness, and 3-4 other Super8 movie makers all team up, cut a deal between each other, and do an "all-for-one/one-for-all" kind of arrangement?

[Rick Palidwor]

I'm familiar with Corman but didn't realize he was New Line. I stand corrected. He's an exception of course. But your idea of people teaming up is not bad.

Rick

[Nate Downes]

People teaming up isn't actually much different than what Corman does.

 

I'm still weighing between the Super8 feature I want to do and the 16mm feature I should do.

[Rick Palidwor]

I'm still weighing between the Super8 feature I want to do and the 16mm feature I should do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I say start with the one you think you can get finished, or, started on, first. Mitch and I started Sleep Always before everything ($, final script) was in place, and in doing so it forced us to make some decisions and there were advantages to working out certain details as we went. I don't think we ever would have made it if we didn't just take the plunge.

 

Rick

[Scot McPhie]

Unfortunately, as you may know from your own work, it seems like I am destined to spend the rest of my lift marketing my last film, just to recoup. I am writing a couple new feature scripts but they look like big-budget stories where I'll be looking to sell the script to someone with the resources to get them made. But I shot a b&w (plus x) super-duper short for someone the other day!!

 

Are you still marketing In My Image?

 

Rick

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hi Rick I kind of am and I kind of aren't - it's permanently on sale on my web site and I put it on eBay every now and again, however I'm not actively pushing it anywhere - however I reckon (just yesterday) that I've woked out how to get the ntsc version done so I will be pushing that in a week or so - I've sold about 50 PAL orders (and given away about 20 complimentary copies to press/crew etc) but I reckon there should be about 50 NTSC sales I can make in the course of the year.

 

This will all help but won't recoup the budget - but that doesn't really worry me I've kind of accepted that. The project has helped propel me to professional work both as an actor and a 1st AD so it's kind of paying for itself in other ways. I think it could actually pay for itself out right if I go on and make other more sucessful films and people want to look back though the back catalogue and that way the sales will go up. So one day sure.

 

I doubt I'll ever do another feature on Super 8 again - I may do - I like the texture of it - and particulalry liked that in Sleep Always - but it's just not economically viable for me at the moment - I'm concerntrating on 16mm at the moment. I can get that developed and telecined locally and hopefully one day I could a get a distribution deal which could put a film in a cinema which is my big aim/hope -- all of these things are quite hard with Super 8 and why I want to avoid it. However the feel really suits some stories which is why it would be good to do another feature in Super 8, but not until I had the money or the economic set up/backing to handle the limited distribution options with it (ie DVD release!).

 

The idea of putting a package deal in to a distributor too is interesting - I'd be in that.

 

Scot

[Mark Allen]

Not too familiar with New Line, are you?  New Line is the home of Roger Corman, one of the most prolific producers in the business.  He produces many movies a year, and this is the reason why.

 

But, my thinking is, why don't filmmakers bunch-up and assault the distributors en masse?  Say you, Scottness, and 3-4 other Super8 movie makers all team up, cut a deal between each other, and do an "all-for-one/one-for-all" kind of arrangement?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

:) ironically - you're very wrong on this. You have New Line confused with New World which had been Roger Corman's home until he founded Concorde which later became New Concorde.

 

While at Concorde, he had an output deal with a studio to produce 19 movies a year - that was back in the days when there wasn't enough product to fill video shelves.

 

New Line on the other hand was a tiny production company until one day they had this crazy movie "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" which became a huge success and changed the course of their history.

 

 

If you talk to distributors one of the problems they are having is that there is so much product being sent to them now (and most of it bad DV movies) that it is hard to find the gems - and they are starting to rely on specific productin companies that have a proven track record to be their go-to guys. You're idea of basically forming a brand is a good one, but only if it is genre specific AND it absolutely rises above the pack in terms of quality.

[Nate Downes]

:)  ironically - you're very wrong on this.  You have New Line confused with New World which had been Roger Corman's home until he founded Concorde which later became New Concorde.

Doh, my bad!

While at Concorde, he had an output deal with a studio to produce 19 movies a year - that was back in the days when there wasn't enough product to fill video shelves.

 

New Line on the other hand was a tiny production company until one day they had this crazy movie "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" which became a huge success and changed the course of their history.

If you talk to distributors one of the problems they are having is that there is so much product being sent to them now (and most of it bad DV movies) that it is hard to find the gems - and they are starting to rely on specific productin companies that have a proven track record to be their go-to guys.  You're idea of basically forming a brand is a good one, but only if it is genre specific AND it absolutely rises above the pack in terms of quality.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, my thinking was 3-part: genre-specific, quality-focused, and projectable ie no DV or HD. To make it work the way I'd like to involves a lot of cooperation, heavy investment in back-end and sharing of resources between productions. Example, say there are 4 scripts, each one involves a bar scene. Cut a deal with a bar owner to use his bar for 2 days (as most bars are night-oriented) and shoot all 4 during those 2 days. Use the same extras and crew. Just replace the principle cast and director.

 

Just how I'd handle things, anyways.

Edited May 31, 2005 by downix

[Guest jeremy edge]

For the original topic;

 

Sleep Always is a great indie film in my opinion.

I've just seen some films at the theater that didnt grip me like Sleep did. I started watching to see what the cameras could do and ended up drwn in the story till the end.

 

Its very nice super 8 shooting as well.

Edited June 1, 2005 by jeremy edge

[Rod Otaviano]

For the original topic;

 

Sleep Always is a great indie film in my opinion.

 

Saw the film yesterday. Really impressive. Actually I'd read several comments about it but wasn't expecting it to be so good. It was a pleasant surprise.

 

I think if you like David Lynch you'll definitely enjoy watching this movie. Same kind of atmosphere (hey Rick, I hope you don't mind the comparison).

 

Soundtrack is also top-notch. I love "Do Make Say Think" by the way. Jethro's acting was solid ... [lol]

 

Anyways, great film.

[Rick Palidwor]

Saw the film yesterday. Really impressive. Actually I'd read several comments about it but wasn't expecting it to be so good. It was a pleasant surprise.

 

I think if you like David Lynch you'll definitely enjoy watching this movie. Same kind of atmosphere (hey Rick, I hope you don't mind the comparison).

 

Soundtrack is also top-notch. I love "Do Make Say Think" by the way. Jethro's acting was solid ... [lol]

 

Anyways, great film.

 

Thanks Rodrigo. Glad you liked it. We are definitely Lynch fans. We try not to invite the comparison for fear we can't live up to it, but it's a common observation. We obviously don't mind. Ditto on Do Make Say Think. You're the first to give Jethro the lizard a shout-out. I'll pass it on.

 

Rick